Post Emissions tractors

[alpacalips]

My experience with tier IV emissions is limited to one tractor, but here's my story.

At work we have a JD 4052R. We have had it for about 18 months (bought new) and it has around 190 hours on it.

When the computer thinks it's time for a regen, it tells you to raise the engine speed to 1500. Once you do this it will not reduce the speed below 1500, regardless of throttle position.

The problem is, it keeps getting stuck in regen mode. I have left it running for up to 3+ hours at times trying to get it to complete the regen. It's currently at the dealership getting checked out. So far they tried a forced regen and it didn't work, they are still looking into it.

I have seen many comments online where people say "you just need to work it harder" or "when it goes into regen, go bush hog a few acres."

Well here's the thing, it's a utility tractor. It gets used for a wide variety of tasks, sometimes for hours, but often for a few minutes at a time. Not everyone is working a field all day or has the time or opportunity to "just do some more work" when the thing decides it's time to clean the DPF. And it's just not feasible to always work it hard when you're loading a few pallets, pulling a few fence posts or digging up a pipe with the backhoe.

After all that, I'm not sure what the point of my story was, except that the jobs you intend to use the machine for can probably have a big effect on how intrusive or troublesome the emissions system is to you.

 

[BobInSD]

I’ve started mine up at 10’ F and had it immediately want to regen. I didn’t like that part as it was inside at the time and I don’t like racing a cold engine. OTOH my last tractor wouldn’t start at those temps without a block heater.

Don't know. I have run my tractor in 20-40 degree weather, but not often. I also put a block heater (dealer install) to shorten warm up time. It may have an effect - T4 does require the engine to run somewhat hot to burn off particulates.

I'm talking about cold weather. Minus 10 or 20 F.

 

[Jstpssng]

I'm talking about cold weather. Minus 10 or 20 F.

At those temps you'd be foolish to start any tractor up and just start running it.

 

[VroomVroom]

On say a 70s or 80s day. How long before moving the hydraulics or hst?

 

[Jstpssng]

On say a 70s or 80s day. How long before moving the hydraulics or hst?

30 seconds. But that's probably longer than needed. I waited the same to warm up my geared tractors.

 

[BobInSD]

At those temps you'd be foolish to start any tractor up and just start running it.

That was my main concern going from gas to diesel last year. This past winter I only had to start it once below 0, but sometimes the snow needs pushed before work. I put a thermometer in the barn, and it stays 8-10 degrees warmer if the previous day was sunny. With that and a block heater I just try to not think about the molasses flow rates of the oil and then warm up the HST for a long time.

Not ideal, but sometimes there's no other option. If there's a foot or less sometimes we just drive over it until it's warm enough to start a tractor but that risks it being really drifted in by the time we get home. Luckily the heavy snow doesn't show up with the coldest nights very often, but the wind here can fill your driveway with last week's snow even on a really cold night.

 

[ljjhouser]

That was my main concern going from gas to diesel last year. This past winter I only had to start it once below 0, but sometimes the snow needs pushed before work. I put a thermometer in the barn, and it stays 8-10 degrees warmer if the previous day was sunny. With that and a block heater I just try to not think about the molasses flow rates of the oil and then warm up the HST for a long time.

Not ideal, but sometimes there's no other option. If there's a foot or less sometimes we just drive over it until it's warm enough to start a tractor but that risks it being really drifted in by the time we get home. Luckily the heavy snow doesn't show up with the coldest nights very often, but the wind here can fill your driveway with last week's snow even on a really cold night.

I'm wondering how far north you are. Only option may be a heated shed (when you need the tractor) AND maybe a block heater. Then, heated gloves, socks, vest, hat for yourself. That is too much for me. I would wuss out and never open the outside door.

 

[BobInSD]

We're about the middle of the state north-south. -30 is rare, and newsworthy, only happens every couple of years. Folks here don't consider-20 to be a big deal, they just slip it into the weather report with no additional drama. Those are nighttime (morning) lows and it nearly always gets up above 0 during the day. There are weeks when it doesn't, maybe once or twice every winter. Thankfully, -20 is too cold to snow and the tractor shouldn't have to be woken up for that.

There are also a lot of days were it's +20, it's not always that cold.

 

[DieselBound]

That is why I bought a Mahindra. No DEF system to worry about.

My Kioti doesn't use DEF (not thinking that any CUT does; BIG tractors probably do).

I suspect what you're really meaning is DPF. And if that's the case, my Kioti has a DPF; DPFs are covered for something like 3,000 hours- most people here aren't going to rack up those kind of hours on their tractors (and if people think they'll be running tractors in 20 years, well, that's some pretty strong forecasting ability!): and DPFs can be cleaned, so their likely survival rate is a lot more than just 3,000 hrs (that's only what is mandated by law in order to get manufacturers to meet emission standards).

No DEF and no DPF means EGR. If one doesn't believe that these can be a problem (if neglected) then I'll be happy to show you what can happen to EGR systems (have plenty of experience with EGR stuff on my diesel cars). Bottom line: ANY emission system that meets Tier IV can be horribly messed up if the tractor isn't run at higher RPMs and worked reasonably hard; even my 2000-era cars' emissions systems will crap up if you don't follow these guidelines.

Going on six years and 700 hours on my DPF Kioti. It hasn't skipped a beat: same with my cars- BECAUSE I operate them as they are supposed to be operated. I'll likely go belly-up before it does...

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

You guys are sure cute with your definitions of "cold".

My tractor sat outside for 3 years, and now sits in an unheated shop building. It regularly gets -30F here in winter, and frequently drops to -40F. Last winter was unusually mild for us, but the winter before that we went about a month and a half where the temp never got warmer than -30F.

Anyway, yes, the cold has an impact on your emissions system. When in my case, the ambient air temp is -40F, and the tractor has sat outside in it, then the tractor and all it's emissions equipment is also at -40F. In my case, the system on my tractor was entirely passive. There were (I say "were" because it's all removed now) no active controls to the system, and no way to do a "forced" or controlled regen. The DPF/DOC canister relied on the heat of the exhaust gas to burn off the soot that was trapped inside the filter elements. When you start it up at -40F, the canister takes so long to get heated (strictly heat from the engine exhaust), that it fills with particles faster than they can be burned off. It is a cumulative effect, and will eventually plug the filter enough that performance drops off and the little idiot light on the dash starts blinking away, and eventually lights solid.

After struggling with this effect for a few winters, I had enough and had some custom surgery done to mine to completely eliminate the emissions system on my Branson. I now have zero issues regardless of the weather or operating conditions.

As to operating the tractor in the cold...

Synthetic oil is a "must" in my opinion. My engine oil is synthetic, but I don't believe my hydro oil is. I run an engine block heater, a stick on pad on the oil pan, and a stick on pad on the side of the hydro sump. All 3 of these heaters are important to consider at these temps. With just the block heater, the synthetic oil will allow you to start the tractor, but the warm up time is extended. Same with the hydro sump heater. Without the hydro heater, you have to "high idle" the tractor for a good 15-20 minutes before the hydro oil gets warm enough to be able to move the tractor at all (HST trans).

But with the 3 heaters, and synthetic engine oil, I can start it up, wait a minute or two, then go to "high idle" (about 1500-1600 rpms), go inside and pour a cup of coffee, then come out and go work the tractor like it's any other day of the year.

I have the tractor plugged in to a timer in winter, it comes on at 4am, and stays on until about 10am. That covers me for week days and week ends (timer doesn't differentiate days of the week). The 3 heaters are then plugged in to that timer at the tractor. I have a pig tail 3-way plug that the 3 heater cords plug into, then the timer plugs into that pig tail.

It is this combination of heaters and synthetic engine oil that makes start up operations quick and easy at these temps.