Portable Saw Milling

[MarkV]

Need some advice about having a portable saw mill come and mill some pine trees for me. I have about 25-30 lumber grade pines that have to go for a new barn site. In this area that isn’t enough trees for a logger to bother with and I hate to just cut and burn good trees. I do think I can find what is called here a “short hauler” to cut and remove the trees at no cost or profit to me. Or, I have a portable saw mill operator who will come and saw lumber with me providing the labor to load the mill and stack the lumber.

Was wondering if anyone here does their own milling or has had milling done that could share their experiences. I’m at a loss as to the going price per board foot for milling and don’t know if the .40 cents per foot quoted is high or low. Also can’t really get a handle on how much lumber I am looking at. It sounds like a labor intensive project and I can’t decide if the economics, lumber quality and drying time will make it worth while.

Thanks in advance for any info you can share.

MarkV

 

[Bob_Skurka]

The current issue of HOBBY FARM magazine has a nice article about portable saw mills. I was just reading it last night. It gives manufacturers contact information, plus is also talks briefly about several different brands and models. It goes into the basic differences between manual, semi-hydraulic and fully hydraulic assisted machines.

It might be worth the effort for you to find a copy of the magazine.

 

[AlanB]

I have never understood how they price that by Board foot not by cut, feet of cut or whatever.

Me being the person that I am would have to look at the guy after he is all set up and say, yep, I would like it all cut into veneer please

Of course I think I would run afterwards!

 

[jeffghs]

Down in my area here, Hurricane Katrina caused a lot of would be wasted pines and lumber, so many people invested in portable mills to deal with it. We just recently had about 3000 board feet milled at a cost of $220/1000bf. This was done at his site. We loaded on a flatbed gooseneck trailer and carried to him, hence the lower price. A week after we dropped off, all was ready for pick-up. My neighbor did the same for his 30x60 pole building and lumber cost for it was right around $700.

 

[dubba]

Back in 2000 I had 6500 ft of pine sawn for .18/foot. Purely a stand & watch operation. 2 guys, one mill & a lot of attitude. One thing for sure- if you are gonna be the "log & lumber boy" you will work your butt off.

As a side note, what does lumber cost in your area? We are at about .50/foot for rough green lumber. I think unless you have a lot of time on your hands, you might give the trees away vs your labor to saw them for .10/foot. It took the guys that I had 4 days to do 6500 ft. (middle of winter, cold & snowing). that's only ~$160/day for some real back breaking work.

 

[meledward23]

I had around 12,000 board feet done for me about two years ago. Oak, Sweetgum, Poplar and Sycamore. I paid an hourly rate, as someone previous mentioned have lumber cut to 3/4 that only 6" wide is yeilding a low board foot count compared to the 8/4 14" wide slabs that were cut. I beleive I paid somewhere around $100.00 per hour for two men (both =100, not each). Any way in the end I came out around .32-.34 cents a board foot.

It makes a mess. lots of scrap wood, lots of shavings/dust. A lot of wood to stack and dry. I am not sure I would go through this for Pine, unless I was getting big slab cuts, or beams. For the varied woods that I had done it was great. Of course then I have to work it all. I am remodeling the interior of my house with it. I was building a new house and having a carpenter build me and arts and crafts style home, but then I sold that land and jsut bought this cheap house. I have plenty of wood for future projects.

 

[guyrj33]

I had about 500 bft of oak and maple milled on site. The man running the mill charged me something in the neighborhood of $250 for a 9 hour day. I paid him a bit more. He really worked hard for his money.
Look for someone who has a fully automated machine; I think that's the only reasonable way to do this sort of cutting.

 

[1bush2hog]

Mark -

You may want to try to find a horse logger - they are usually smaller scale operators. A friend of mine in WNC used a combination of horse logger, and on site mill operator when he was clearing land for his barn. He did some select cutting as well.

The horse logger would bring the logs out of the woods and they would either go to the mill and be sold to the mill or cut on site and used on site.

I am contemplating the same situation as you, except I have yellow poplar instead of pines that I want to clear to make room for a shed and cabin.

You can also find experts who will help you over at the Forestry Forum - www.forestryforum.com/

 

[randy41]

when i built my house in the late 90's i had some pines milled into siding and various other lumber. I cut down the trees and hauled them out and had them laying out in a field but used some other lumber to keep them off the ground. A guy came with a bandsaw mill and did a good job of turning my trees into lumber. i dont remember what i paid but it was almost 10 years ago so it is not really relivant. there were many unusable slabs which i burned in the woodstove. he milled the logs out of sight of my house.
if you are paying by the board foot then the guy doing the milling makes out better milling large lumber rather than 1 bys.
you need to compare the cost of buying green rough cut lumber to the cost of having it custom milled.
if you know the local forestry guy he can tell you of someone who can estimate the usable board feet of lumber before you start.
how old are the pines and what is their girth?

 

[escavader]

MARK V,HERES SOME ADVICE FROM A MILL RAT,
Try to find out before you hire a porta mill,if the person is worth beans as a sawyer.Although rough lumber isnt perfectly sized,its a pain in the butt to use ,if the sizing is way off.Be sure you have some idea what you want them to get out of your logs mostly boards,some beams,two bys ?You can pretty much tell from the size of your trees ,what you can square down to.Depending on the quality of the logs,you might get some pine timbers out of them for your barn,although not always the strongest species to use.Some companys use pine rafters in their log homes,ours uses eastern hemlock which is typically stronger.Before any one cuts the trees,they need to know how long to buck the logs too.so you got some decisions to make before hand.Do you have any blueprints or drawings to see what you need?
If you are to consider having any custom planing done,a good quality sawyer up front is important.AS a professional planer operator,i can tell you quality starts with the sawyer.Having all the lumber close to the right rough size is important,as well as minimal bandsaw wave.Once again if this is a plan,specify what you want ship lapped,v matched or square edged .The going rate is between 60 and 100 dollars per thousand bf on this right now. Probably with a barn youll go rough sawn though,just thought id mention this though.
During the drying process some good dry stickers are important to prevent staining ,or sticker stain.Dont cover with plastic,it keeps moisture in and makes blue stain,or coffee stain.Use some old metal roofing etc.Try to pile it as high off the ground as you can with all the sticks lined up,for minimal warpage.
alan

 

[MarkV]

Wow, lots of good advice so far. Thanks. I’ve been cruising around the web on some sites that deal with milling and it sounds like .40 cents per board foot is on the high side from what I can see. The guy I am talking to uses a Lucas Mill which is a circular saw mill. I think this limits his cuts to an 8” width. My thoughts were to use the lumber on/in the barn project as siding and 2x4 framing lumber. A rough sawn lumber would be fine for the look we want. May also have a few beams cut for another project. The state forester estimated the stand of trees to be about 45 years old and considered them lumber quality. Other than that I have no idea how to guess what they would yield or their quality. Thanks for the idea of checking the local rate for rough sawn green pine. I don’t think I would go through the effort to save .10 or .20 cents a foot.

I understand the lumber needs to be stacked, stickled and dried before use. How long are we talking for 2x framing material and ¾” siding material? Someone told me to nail up the siding green to help prevent twisting. I would not be anywhere near ready for that yet. Also I was told that with pine it needed to be milled with in a week of felling the tree to prevent stains. Anyone know for sure?

MarkV

 

[TNhobbyfarmer]

Here are pictures of a cabin I built on my farm. The logs for the exterior walls are 6X7 and were sawed by guy with a Woodmizer portable bandmill. He also sawed 1 bys which I used on the interior partition walls. I utilized about 80 pine trees which were planted by my grandfather back in the day. The guy who did the sawing was a very nice gentleman and he only charged me $1500.00 for the entire project. I have been told that was a steal. Anyway, the cabin is my weekend getaway. I completed the project about 4 years ago and have spent many a fun weekend in it.

 

[Slacker]

Here are pictures of a cabin I built on my farm. The logs for the exterior walls are 6X7 and were sawed by guy with a Woodmizer portable bandmill. He also sawed 1 bys which I used on the interior partition walls. I utilized about 80 pine trees which were planted by my grandfather back in the day. The guy who did the sawing was a very nice gentleman and he only charged me $1500.00 for the entire project. I have been told that was a steal. Anyway, the cabin is my weekend getaway. I completed the project about 4 years ago and have spent many a fun weekend in it.

Beautiful cabin! Love the interior. I wanted to go with logs for my cabin, but I was intimidated by the labor involved. I went stick built and I'll probably regret it my whole life, although I'll finish the cabin sooner.

 

[randy41]

i felled my pines in the late fall and they weren't milled until the next spring and there were no stains. Keep it off the ground.
if you nail up siding when its green then the out facing side will dry faster then the in facing side and it will cup. you need to sticker and cover it for a few months. If you are going to put a finish on it then you should seal both sides.
I had mine milled to 1x8's and i nailed them up with stainless steel ring shanked nails. It board and batten. The siding on the sunny side of the house gets the most abuse from nature.

 

[escavader]

Wow, lots of good advice so far. Thanks. I’ve been cruising around the web on some sites that deal with milling and it sounds like .40 cents per board foot is on the high side from what I can see. The guy I am talking to uses a Lucas Mill which is a circular saw mill. I think this limits his cuts to an 8” width. My thoughts were to use the lumber on/in the barn project as siding and 2x4 framing lumber. A rough sawn lumber would be fine for the look we want. May also have a few beams cut for another project. The state forester estimated the stand of trees to be about 45 years old and considered them lumber quality. Other than that I have no idea how to guess what they would yield or their quality. Thanks for the idea of checking the local rate for rough sawn green pine. I don’t think I would go through the effort to save .10 or .20 cents a foot.

I understand the lumber needs to be stacked, stickled and dried before use. How long are we talking for 2x framing material and ¾” siding material? Someone told me to nail up the siding green to help prevent twisting. I would not be anywhere near ready for that yet. Also I was told that with pine it needed to be milled with in a week of felling the tree to prevent stains. Anyone know for sure?

MarkV

GOOD MORNING,
The circular mill probably has an 1/4 kerf blade,where a band usually will be an 1/8th.Most operations convert to band because you can gain an extra board or two on a log,and make a little less waste[sawdust]
How long it takes pine to dry depends on the drying conditions.If your area is wet,or damp it will take longer,and a greater chance of stain setting in.It also depends on your"drying season"Up here in MAINE late APRIL to AUGUST is the best,The sun is the hottest on the surface believe it or not in APRIL,MAY and there isnt any dew falling at night.At our mill ive seen white pine[1inch] dry in 4 weeks ,down to 15% in MAY[with no rain of course].Starting in AUGUST everything must go in the kilns,because it takes to long.
If your gonna use it rough,i wouldnt bother to dry it on the rafters,if its white pine[that dont usually twist] Red pine ,and southern yellow ,usually will.
Just remember ,lumber is gonna shrink if used green,so on that siding youll end up with large gaps between the boards.The wider the board ,the more it will shrink.Its just a barn,so that may be ok,or you can add a batten strip at a later time.
The stain in pine are actually a living micro organism,according to the inspectors who certify us to inspect lumber,from the NORTH EASTERN LUMBER ASSOCIATION or NELMA .Most large scale mills like ours have a dip tank,with chemicals to kill these organisms before they get started.We dip whole stacks of lumber after the sawing and sticking process.If logs sit to long STAIN will set in too.This is one reason you see larger mills watering excess logs,so dont wait to long after you saw them,if you are lookin for finish quality.
As A Planer man for 22 years I can tell you if you want finish Quality,pine must be down to at least 15% moisture content ,for the best finish.Green or wet wood causes raised grain, tear out,and a fuzzy finish,even with the sharpest of knives.You can run it green right off the saw,if its just to SIZE IT and thats fine if your not trying to get finish quality.Also remember again if you shiplap it or tounge and groove it,its gonna shrink apart if its green.If you try to dry it after you plane it green,you will find it all wont dry down to the same size.The sap wood will shrink different then the heart wood.If you are gonna just surface one face and no edges and add a batten strip for your siding,you will be ok,just expect sticker stain,if you stick it after.It takes longer to dry under the stickers therefor stain can set in.
GOOD LUCK AND TAKE PICS OF THE MILLING ,AND THE BARN RAISING
ALAN

 

[scott_vt]

MARK V,HERES SOME ADVICE FROM A MILL RAT,
Try to find out before you hire a porta mill,if the person is worth beans as a sawyer.Although rough lumber isnt perfectly sized,its a pain in the butt to use ,if the sizing is way off.
alan

Just to add to what Alan has allready stated. If the size is off it can definitely be a pain. Many of my wood working projects require 3/4" thickness finished. If the rough boards are milled to 7/8" and warp while drying, youve got big problems tryin to finish them to size ! Id rather joint and plane an extra 1/16" than have scrap ! Jst an example of what Alans' sayin .

 

[ScottAR]

Forestry Forum

Pull up a stump and join in...

 

[Jstpssng]

Alan, the lucas mill utilises a thin kerf blade on a motor, the saw head moves back and forth just like on the band saw. It supposedly has less waver than a band though, and especially in knotty wood. .40$/ft would be high around here, but that can vary by region. According to the web site he should be able to cut ut to 16 inches by cutting from 2 sides.
Lucas Mill in Victoria, AUSTRALIA - CUTTING OPTIONS

How tall and how big in diameter are your trees?

Stain isn't as much of an issue in the cooler months up here; once again though I'm not sure about your region. At any rate it won't affect the structural quality. (I've also heard of people who make nice gun cabinets out of stained wood.)

 

[SPIKER]

I second going to the forestryforum which I frequent a lot too. there you will get every thing you need answered as well as probably the ability to get in contact with a few other guys in you're area who have sawmills and or do this for different rates...

sounds like you may have some useable lumber there... it is better ti give it away rather than simply cutting & burning if possable. this happens more than most people think, small lots or a few trees needing cleared are all over the area I live in and people are hapy to get them removed and have them USED rather than simply haveing to push into piles & burnt... which not only time consumeing is slightly wastefull on top of being unneeded.

mark M

 

[randy41]

i think if someone made a bandsaw mill that could run off a tractor pto there would be a lot of customers for it. i guess the log would have to be moved through the blade instead of the other way around.