Portable Generator

KubotaSteve · Dec 30, 2004

I have been looking around for a decent generator. The main use would be for emergency power back-up but would also use it at other places as well. I'm not so much concerned about heat as I am getting a LP fireplace and blue flame for the basement. I mainly need one to run the well pump (I think it is 1 hp) and to run hot water heater. Those two items don't necessarily have to be running at the same time though. And also for some general lighting.
I have looked at the Chicago Electric from Harbor Freight, but it appears their fuel consumption would eat up any savings rather quickly. I also looked at the North Star from Northern Tool and they had Honda motors which I liked. I also looked at a Dewalt which was a little smaller but looked good. Any suggestions on a brand. I'm looking at 7,500 watt to 10,000 watt. Would these be sufficient? I'm trying to stay around $2,200. I did a search and found a couple of threads, but not specific info on these brands.

Bob_Skurka · Dec 30, 2004

I have a NORTH STAR from Northern Tool Tri-Fuel and love it (largely because it has been trouble free).

Mine uses a 16hp Briggs Vanguard engine and has worked flawlessly over the past several years. I'm not sure but I seem to recall that mine is about 9250 watts using gasoline, it produces less power with propane and a even less using natural gas. I think with NG, it produces about 7500 watts. I think mine cost $1600 -- 4+ years ago.

I have mine hooked up to the natural gas line and power it with the NG, it has a tank and a switch so I can also use gasoline. The problem with gas generators is that you can run out of gas unless you have a large tank on the property (and I don't) but our longest power failure last a few hours longer than 7 days! The generators will typically run 5 to 8 hours on a tank of gas. Or they run pretty much forever with natural gas, so that made my decision easy.

BE VERY CAREFUL WITH YOUR SWITCHING. You need a cutover switch to switch from the utility company to the generator. You also need a switch to disconnect from the utility company lines so you don't backfeed into the grid and electrocute a lineman making repairs (its the law and it is a big safety thing too). I think I spent a few hundred on the generator sub-panel and cutover switch. My system is NOT one of the automatic systems, but it is very simple. Even the lovely Mrs_Bob can do it if I happen to be out of town. There is one switch to throw at the fuse box. Then you fire up the generator by turning on the NG valve and turning a key starter on the generator.

I'm able to power about 50% of our house including the refrigerator, microwave, well pump, etc. My water heater is gas, so I don't know what type of draw that will put on your system. Also, my home uses mostly compact flourescent fixtures, so the 12 light fixtures in my living room are only drawing a combined 220 watts, where if I used incandescent bulbs the same draw would be 1800 watts!!!

CORRECTION: I'm working from home this afternoon (I was at work when I originally posted this reply) so I just went out and checked the generator, it is a 9000 Watt unit, not a 9250. The generator is a DYNA unit, connected to the Briggs v-twin 16hp Vanguard engine. Then entire unit is branded North Star.

dicker · Dec 30, 2004

I am probably starting up an old discussion again, but I chose a PTO generator.
15 Kw was $3000 Canadian, 60 amp generator load center including 3 pole switch was $179 and the electrician was free.

Richard

KubotaSteve · Dec 30, 2004

I had thought about a PTO generator but didn't want to tie the tractor up, plus we normally only loose power after a nasty rain storm, ice storm or heavy wet snow. And usually after those events the tractor is needed for cleanup.
Last year alone, I had to end of missing work for 4 days because of no power. The water is the main issue, as I have LP cooktop to heat water if necessary.

dicker · Dec 30, 2004

I agree with your position. The big things here were water pump, sump pump( hydro only seams to go out when it is raining) and furnace pump and some lights. Everything else was a bonus. We also found that we could always spare the tractor for cleanup. The deciding factors for us to go PTO were 1) no extra engine to maintain as we had just purchased a 32 HP one attached to a tractor and 2) we could get more generator for our buck and therefore power more of the house with a pto generator.

jjk0091 · Dec 30, 2004

If all you want it for is backup power spending over 1000 seems like a waist of money. I bought a Troy Built sold by Lowes for about 700. Its got 8500 surge with a 5 gallon tank and worked flawlessly during the 3 power outages we had during the 3 hurricanes that came through my area this year. I ran my pump, fridge, fans, lights, satellite and tv, basicaly everything but the water heater and a/c, then I would turn off everything and run my 50 gallon hot water heater till it shut off. Only had to run the water heater once a day to keep it hot.

bugstruck · Dec 30, 2004

Steve,

Everyone will have a good opinion on this so I'll just state how I tackled it on a budget.
Bought a 9HP generator, about 4500 watts, from TSC for 569.00 in 2001 with a Vanguard engine 6 gallon gas tank. No idle control or any of the fancy panels. Just a decent frame and wheel set. Don't see them that cheap now though.

Attached a home built plywood storm enclosure and hinged lid so it can survive in very bad weather. Watch the air movement and exhaust heat if you do this.

Took a 12 ga. 50 foot extension cord and installed male 220V connectors on both ends. I can hear the safety police now /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I don't have a transfer switch. Simply turn off the main panel disconnect and any large demand circuits I don't want energized. Plug the cord in to an inline 20A, 220V receptacle on my compressor circuit located in the garage (switch the compressor off!!). The compressor circuit is a short run 12 ga. wire to the panel so it will carry 4800 watts easily when combined with the short extension cord. I'm far enough from the living area that carbon dioxide is no issue.

The panel is backfed (energized) via the compressor circuit. I can run everything I need including lights, well pump, oil furnace, and refrigerator. I cycle the freezers on and off ocassionally and kill the well pump while they are running.

If we were prone to longer outages I'd do something different but for a day or two it's quite survivable. Total cost less than $650.00.

It's one way to skin it.

Good Luck,

bugstruck · Dec 30, 2004

Steve,

Forgot to note in my last post as was mentioned by others, you want to consider fuel. I get 14 hours on a 6 gallon tank and generally keep 15 gallons on hand. The larger gasoline units will of course take more fuel. Of course you can always raid the car tanks but that's real work.

dicker · Dec 30, 2004

What you described about backfeeding the panel through a 220 circuit is where the unsafe and unlawful part that somebody else talked about comes in. When you shut off the main, that only disconnects the two black wires. You are still backfeeding the power grid throught the neutral. Hydro workers will not be pleased when they get a tingle.
Richard

dicker · Dec 30, 2004

Hi

I don't know about Troy Built, but the standard around here for a stand alone generator is Honda. I believe that they are around $1.00 a watt.

Richard