Porch construction questions

   / Porch construction questions #11  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

Ejb,

I would assume that your time and a sore body from picking, hauling, mixing, and placing the concrete is worth a few dollars.

The redi-mix plant will give you a superior, premixed, and ready to use product. You will save time, effort, and your muscles.

Maybe you have a sidewalk or apron, or a neighbor who is willing to share in your load of concrete.

Something to think about.

Yooper Dave
 
   / Porch construction questions #12  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

For the price difference I would not mix it by hand. Most people can always use some extra concrete. Will you need a side walk or steps to your porch. Outside storage pad for garbage cans or anything else. If you form it up right you can pour the footings and the supporting columns in one pour which would probably use all the concrete. you would have to be able to tear the forms away once it cured though. I would also place rebar in the forms.
 
   / Porch construction questions #13  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

Something else you might consider is pouring the footing and pillar together. I have done this and it might have some advantages in a case like yours. I built a footing 2'x2'x12" high. put some 1/2" rebar in the box. Drilled a 12" dia hole in a 3/4" plywood cover for the box. Located the box top 42" below grade (my frostline) then put the sonotube (48"-72" depending on location ) over the hole. Backfilled (carefully) the box/tube combo. This form was filled in a single pour. A couple of pieces of rebar, bent into a J, are placed in the footing/pillar during the pour.

As far as footing size, the purpose of the footing is simply to provide enough surface area to prevent the loads on the structure from exceeding the bearing strength of the soil. The poorest of soils for building will have a bearing strength of ~1500 psf. Once you have enough bearing area to accomodate the structural loads (dead, live, wind, snow) stronger is not particularly relevant.
 
   / Porch construction questions #14  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

Check around for places that mix the concrete, then put it in a trailer with a delivery shoot off the back. This could be pulled by a truck:

m101up.jpg
 
   / Porch construction questions #15  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

Like wow man, you are almost as much a gluton for punishment as I was (am?). You didn't say bags of what, portland cement, redi-crete or what so I assume redi-crete. You didn't say how big the bags were... I have been in areas where the predominant size is 60lbs and others where it is 80lbs (if I recall correctly). A pallet of 60 pounders weighed about 3500lbs, including the pallet. I could carry a pallet of redi-crete plus several block and misc stuff but was driving my customized TurboDiesel Ram 3500 with extra leaves in the main spring packs, in the overloads, and had air bags between the frame and rear axle. Still wheel barrowing all that for a hundred feet eveyr few days and opening all of it and lifting it up and pouring it into my mixer was not a joy.

I am particularly currious about your statement where you are going to mix a fair quantity "by hand". As far as quality, you can make good mud from redi-crete if you are willing to add some cement to raise the PSI and don't add too much water. A stiff mix (well stirred) is desired over soupy stuff. There are a couple terms that get incorrectly interchanged: placed and poured. In general, concrete that is easy to pour will not cure to a final strength nearly as great as well stirred but fairly dry (stiff) mud. Slump tests are a valid concern and can be used to good effect with your premix company if you go for a delivery. Tell them what psi mimimum and slump maximum you will accept with the provision that you will reject the load if it fails slump. Often they will go to some effort to exceed your requirement by a fair margin to avoid a possible rejection. Same story with 4000 psi or whatever. They will often excced your spec as cheap insurance. Be careful that you don't let the driver or anyone else add too much water to make life easy for them as it makes your strength factor go way down.

I am a more is better kind of guy too but there are diminishing returns once you exceed reasonable engineering requirements. I often overbuild out of ignorance. If I don't know how much is enough, I typically go bigger stronger better until I am comfortable. That is why I hired a consulting engineer (soils engineer and foundation/slab expert, professional engineer with E&O insurance) and two operators with a drilling rig to find out what my soil's strength is and how much foundation is going to be enough. Besides, now that I know how much is enough, I know what I need to do to exceed that by my personal comfort level margin.

Strength of 'crete varies bunches. I have been demo'ing a foundation and sidewalks where a house was removed (sold) and some of the flatwork was of a different era from the rest of the house. At least one of the builders knew concrete. Two of us were taking turns with a 14 lb sledge and had a devil of a time breaking some of it into pieces no more that 1300 lbs so my pallet forks/FEL would lift it. Some of it was nearly impossible while that from a different time period was easy. Big difference in strength.

Consider that time is a valuable resource just like money. Is mixing all that crete the highest and best use of your abilities at this stage of construction? If yes, give it a whir. Typically the problem with sweat equity is that a guy who would make/save more money acting as manager, general contractor, facilitator, gofer, quality control inspector ends up doing some truly low end jobs BECAUSE HE CAN. I would guess that with a little planning you could save 25% of the cost of a house/project by being your own general contractor. Most folks can't save 10% with a hammer and saw. I was real slow to learn this lesson and still relapse all too often. Just because you CAN do some job doesn't mean that you SHOULD do it.

Let us know how it turns out.

Patrick
 
   / Porch construction questions
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

SOunds to me like getting it delivered is the better option. I'll put in a call Tuesday.

As for the suggestion of pouring the footer and sonotube at the same time, its a good one, but if I spend a lot of time/money building the forms to allow that to happen, I start adding to the cost.

I figure if I pour the deliverd 6 yards (1.5 yards per hole), I'll end up with "footers" that are approximately 3x5 feet wide and just shy of three feet thick, so when I mix the second batch for the tubes, it will only be enough to fill about 2 feet of sono-tube (x4) which is certainly a doable amount by hand.

With a footer that thick I am planning on putting a 4 pieces of rebar horizontally in each hole, (kinda of like a tic-tac-toe pattern) and then 2 pieces vertically that will extend all the way up the the footer and close to the top of the (to be placed) sono-tube.

I figure for the bottom rebar I'll put it in 8 inches up from the bottom, resting on some stones..any problem with that plan?

I also planned on putting about4-6 inches of gravel at the bottom of each hole first before the pour.

Using earth-forms (i.e. the holes themselves as the form) how important is it that the hole has nice straight edges etc?

Also, should I decide to build some of the forms out of wood, someone mentioned that it would be necessary to remove the forms when I am done....is this really necessary? I was just going to let them rot in place??

thanks guys for all the help.

Oh, I was planning onusing 3000psi concrete? Sufficient?
 
   / Porch construction questions #17  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

Patrick:

save 25% of the cost of a house/project by being your own general contractor. Most folks can't save 10% with a hammer and saw. I was real slow to learn this

Patrick; I built a house by myself. No contactors involved other than a backhoe for basment and septic system trenching and for drilling a well. Oh and ready mix for basement footings and floors. I'm quite sure the savings were more than 25%.
Egon
 
   / Porch construction questions #18  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

DocHeb:
Puting it in a trailer works but the splatter mess isn't pretty as the ready mix is set up to dump into the top of large trucks. Anytime this happens the tower operator at the plant gets this real big grin on his face and likely adds a little more water for better effect. During the transportation phaze you also get undesirable segregation.
The trailer portable mix are a great idea if one can find one.
Egon
 
   / Porch construction questions
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

>>I'm quite sure the savings were more than 25%.

I am no expert, but I would tend to agree. It seems, especially in this market were all contractors and tradespeople are charging top dollar, that anything you do yourself would save you quite a bundle...closer to 50% by my thinking.

The other thing you need to factor in (and that most people don't) is taxes:

Assume you need to pay someone 50K in labor to complete a big project for you, if you can do all that work by yourself, you actually end up saving closer to 75k-100K depending on your tax bracket....in other words, in order to have 50K available to pay someone else, you need to earn 75-100K.

Starting factoring that in and suddenly the savings start adding up quite substantially....my brother in-law is hiring a contractor to do a 300K remodel (really a knock down and rebuild)...when I pointed out to him that in order to pay for the 300K remodel he was actually going to have to earn about 500-600K to pay for that 300K remodel there was absolute dead-silence on the other end of the phone...a rude awakening once you start to think about it.
 
   / Porch construction questions #20  
Re: Porch construction/massive footers OK?

That tax angle is something that few people think of.

Egon
 

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