Buying Advice Please help newbie with tractor/backhoe advice

[mitchelli]

I love this forum and all the great advice! I have been reading for months, and it is time for me to get serious as Spring is here. I have 6 acres of forest and field, about half and half. We have already dropped about 50 trees and want to drop another 50. Mostly pine up to 24". So I need to dig up 100 stumps. Plus my land is really wet, so I need to dig thousands of feet of french drain. Third, this is a new home, so we need to landscape the house. Maybe dig a pond and a big garden and lots of loader work. Have been looking at Kubota L2800(18,385),Kioti CK30(19,900), Mahindra 3316(19,260). All those prices are w/FEL and are prices I got on first visit to dealers in Medford and Grants Pass, Oregon. Backhoe would add about 7,000 to them all. Looking at the trenching and stumps to be dug, how much tractor do you think I need and will the backhoe do the job knowing once these jobs are done, I don't know how much I will use a BH once all these initial jobs are done. Mostly will use FEL and Bush Hog and maybe box blade to level off most of my property. Thanks in advance for any thoughts ps: If I thought it would do the job, I would be happy with A BX-25...I just don't think that would be tough enough to dig 100 stumps.

 

[Boondox]

Digging stumps is not a simple matter of hooking with the backhoe and ripping them out of the ground, especially if the trees were close together and the roots interlaced. I had a Woods 7500 backhoe on my L3010 and hated stumps. Now I have a KX121-3 mini excavator and I still hate stumps.

In fact, the only time I really enjoyed dealing with stumps was pre 9/11 when I could mix up a cocktail thanks to my Marine Corps training and blow the suckers out of the ground with cratering charges! Explosives these days tend to result in unwanted attention. Still, stumping with a mini-ex is better than stumping with a backhoe by a factor of at least 50.

There is a huge disparity between your initial needs and your maintenance needs. Unless you're less than solvent I'd check into the possibility of buying a used excavator for those stumps and drainage issues, then trading it in on a B series tractor. The BX, given your comments about brushhogging and leveling of the land, is too small.

One last thing when it comes to buying a tractor. If your dealer rents, many will deduct most or all of the rental price if you end up buying from them. They want happy customers with tractors appropriately sized for the intended tasks. So you might be able to rent a B series for a week, then decide it's too much (or little) and end up purchasing a BX or an L. Not all dealers do this, but it's worth asking.

Pete

PS: Seriously, forget about the fun associated with explosives. It's just bad mojo these days!

 

[roger 4400]

Hi. If i was on my land I would pay for someone with an excavator to take out the stump( in a few hours an excavator will do a lot of stumping ) A 24 in. stump is very hard to pull out even for an excavator. You will brake any tractor in doing so (my opinion). Imagine the pressure you will need on your pins and joints (I would not do that to my new tractor) An excavator is 20 tons of steel and as lot of hydraulic force. For draining you should have fun ( I mean working) digging....with any of the other tractors. Good luck

 

[techwrtr2]

I'd love to just have 24" Pine tree stumps to deal with. Try dealing with 36" Oak stumps. After digging a hole with the 455 crawler (loader/hoe) nearly big enough to fit said crawler in and still not able to remove the stump, I gave up. Trying chemical methods now.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would hire the stump removal out in the direct vicinity of the new house to be built. The others I would hire someone to grind down. What would you do with all of these stumps anyway?

I would then buy a small tractor appropriate for your landscape and play.

 

[vwkismet]

I am in a similar situation so I rented a Bobcat CT 230 (same as Kioti CK30) last weekend. During two whole days I probably dug out about six 4"-8" maple stumps. It sucked. It was very obvious that for those projects I would need a far larger tractor/bh, but for my maintenance needs I need a B series at most. The bh was great for dirt and even fairly large rocks, but not the stumps.

Bottom line - the advice you have heard is right on - get an excavator for the stumps and forget any size tractor. The rest of the work you can do with any of those tractors if you want.

 

[DavesTractor]

I love this forum and all the great advice! I have been reading for months, and it is time for me to get serious as Spring is here. I have 6 acres of forest and field, about half and half. We have already dropped about 50 trees and want to drop another 50. Mostly pine up to 24". So I need to dig up 100 stumps. Plus my land is really wet, so I need to dig thousands of feet of french drain. Third, this is a new home, so we need to landscape the house. Maybe dig a pond and a big garden and lots of loader work. Have been looking at Kubota L2800(18,385),Kioti CK30(19,900), Mahindra 3316(19,260). All those prices are w/FEL and are prices I got on first visit to dealers in Medford and Grants Pass, Oregon. Backhoe would add about 7,000 to them all. Looking at the trenching and stumps to be dug, how much tractor do you think I need and will the backhoe do the job knowing once these jobs are done, I don't know how much I will use a BH once all these initial jobs are done. Mostly will use FEL and Bush Hog and maybe box blade to level off most of my property. Thanks in advance for any thoughts ps: If I thought it would do the job, I would be happy with A BX-25...I just don't think that would be tough enough to dig 100 stumps.

We'll, I actually thinks it is fun digging stumps. Of course big oaks with tap roots and trees planted very close with interwoven roots aren't so much fun. If you dig your own stumps, you might want to look at the Mahindra 4035 with the Bradco/Mahindra 485 backhoe. It's a brute for a compact. I just sold a guy a smaller Mahindra with a stump grinder. He had over 100 smallish oaks to grind. It's a great way to go if you don't need the entire rootball gone.

Good advice you are getting.

 

[jenkinsph]

We'll, I actually thinks it is fun digging stumps. Of course big oaks with tap roots and trees planted very close with interwoven roots aren't so much fun. If you dig your own stumps, you might want to look at the Mahindra 4035 with the Bradco/Mahindra 485 backhoe. It's a brute for a compact. I just sold a guy a smaller Mahindra with a stump grinder. He had over 100 smallish oaks to grind. It's a great way to go if you don't need the entire rootball gone.

Good advice you are getting.

Thats pretty funny Dave, others suggest a 20 ton excavator and you suggest a 2 ton tractor.:laughing:

 

[JoelD]

This is a topic often discussed on this forum.

There is nothing as good as an excavator as stumping. I rent a 25,000 lb machine for $500 per day and have run out of stumps, I've dug out 50 foot oaks in less than 10 minutes.

Pine would come out with ease with a 25K machine.

You'll do more with a 25K excavator in a day than you could do in a season with a 5K backhoe.

Pine stumps are much easier than hardwood, with that said, based on the number you've quoted, an excavator will serve you well.

Same goes for trenching.

I'd just rent and get all the heavy lifting done with the correct tool.

This way you can purchase the exact correct maintenance tool.

I have a 5K lb backhoe and I will not touch any stump more than a couple of inches, unless I have the better part of a day to kill.

Joel

 

[two_bit_score]

I love this forum and all the great advice! I have been reading for months, and it is time for me to get serious as Spring is here. I have 6 acres of forest and field, about half and half. We have already dropped about 50 trees and want to drop another 50. Mostly pine up to 24". So I need to dig up 100 stumps. Plus my land is really wet, so I need to dig thousands of feet of french drain. Third, this is a new home, so we need to landscape the house. Maybe dig a pond and a big garden and lots of loader work. Have been looking at Kubota L2800(18,385),Kioti CK30(19,900), Mahindra 3316(19,260). All those prices are w/FEL and are prices I got on first visit to dealers in Medford and Grants Pass, Oregon. Backhoe would add about 7,000 to them all. Looking at the trenching and stumps to be dug, how much tractor do you think I need and will the backhoe do the job knowing once these jobs are done, I don't know how much I will use a BH once all these initial jobs are done. Mostly will use FEL and Bush Hog and maybe box blade to level off most of my property. Thanks in advance for any thoughts ps: If I thought it would do the job, I would be happy with A BX-25...I just don't think that would be tough enough to dig 100 stumps.

You'll thank me for this advice in a few years: Buy a mid-size mini-excavator and a ag tractor that will do the mowing, discing, etc.

After you get the land cleared sell the mini-ex.

 

[kf4uda]

I would hire the stump removal out in the direct vicinity of the new house to be built. The others I would hire someone to grind down. What would you do with all of these stumps anyway?

I would then buy a small tractor appropriate for your landscape and play.

In my opinion Steve has your best plan. Even if you dig all of those stumps you still have to do something with them.

Hire someone with a machine that will handle the stumps then buy the size tractor and attachments that you need to do your other projects. You will come out ahead in my opinion.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

mitchelli if grinding them would work for your place do consider that. A heavy duty 3 point hitch grinder is about $5K and a 50-60 HP tractor would be a plus but it could be any old tractor with live PTO.

We are similar to you on our little place being about half and half. I just bought an old 1983 60 HP John Deere 310B backhoe that weights about 13,000 pounds. Stumps are hard work but a lot of mine have sucker out so I can push on them at about the 10' high mark and test them after digging around the base and typically in 1st gear at about 1000 RPM they will go right over before the front tires drop of in the newly dug pond.

As was stated the equipment you need now will not be what you will need to maintain your place. The guy had owned it for three years to whip his new place into shape and was moving to a Kubota with FEL so he sold the backhoe. These sell for $5K to $10K and your need to be prepared to spent a couple more over time because every old piece of equipment is in need of something. It is good if one can do the hoses, belts, filters, etc type stuff at his own place.

While this approach has it down fall at least you are bending and breaking old equipment and not the new stuff you want to play with for the next 20+ years.

1987 John Deere 510b loader,backhoe enclosed cab, ready - eBay (item 180493452794 end time Apr-19-10 19:01:17 PDT)

If I was still in the market I would be seriously interested in this one for example. I know nothing about this one but would have driven to St. Louis if one was not already parked outside. I expect at the last minute the price is going to jump up more. There are tons of Case 580's out there in the same class/price range.

Now I am not saying this route is for you but the first tree I dug up I got it caught between the tire and fender could have done some metal bending on a compact model. Our other tractor belonged to the wife's father and has been restored for the most part and it just mows and blading.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Of the tractors that you have listed, I would get the Mahindra 3316. :thumbsup: Either that or see what you can do on a Kioti CK35. Forget about the hoe, to small to be digging that many stumps and you have too much drainage to put in to be using a hoe, especially a small one. Hire the stump removal out or buy a bigger machine, do the work and sell it, but forget the small hoe. For the drainage you want either a trencher or a ditch plow, with the plow being the fastest depending on your ground and how deep you need to go. (rocks-roots etc) Get a box blade for working your dirt, You will not see a professional grading ground with a FEL. They may fill a ditch, or back drag if the have a backhoe, but you will not find anybody landscaping and using a loader bucket as there main implement for shaping the ground. There is a reason for that believe it or not.

Here is a picture of my ditch plow AKA a middle buster or a potato plow. A ditch plow is a bit bigger that the others though. Mine will dig a ditch 20" deep with one pull. Ground conditions may change that, but with my ground it has always worked with one pull and a second pull to clean it out a bit better. Figure that you can easily do over a thousand feet an hour if you don't have to fight the ground. the 3rd & 4th picture are just under 300 feet long and took me right at 10 minutes to make the cut pass and the clean out pass. :thumbsup: Pretty hard to ditch much faster than that.

 

[mitchelli]

This is a whole lot of great advice in only 8 hours. You have all convinced me that I should pay someone else with a BIG excavator to get those stumps out. A number of you said what will I do with them then....I've always burned em...not this many mind you, but I have found the best part of retirement is having lots of free time. I figured putting them in piles and burn em next spring. But I also want to look more into the stump grinding thing. Brian, thanks for the pictures of the plow doing trenches...I doubt my clay would go that easy but the trencher idea reminded me that I started looking for one of those last year and the biggest I could find was like a 4 inch ditch witch at a United Rental. There must be something better available in Southern Oregon. But I can sure say that having the TBN brain trust to tap into is making this tractor search fun....and another big 'thanks' to everyone for helping with the process!!

 

[Grandad4]

Well, I guess there has to be at least one person to speak up for using a backhoe just so you don't get the idea everyone is against it. I did essentially what you are planning to do and it worked out just fine. We were putting up our shop building in 2005 which required clearing something like 100trees of similar size to what you describe, of mixed pine and hardwood. I've attached some pics taken at the time.

We chose to add the backhoe to our tractor because we couldn't afford a separate mini-ex and we also knew this was only one of many projects requiring excavation, so the backhoe made lots more financial sense than repeated rentals or hiring someone to do the work.

The tractor is a Kubota L4610 with a Kubota 4560 backhoe. It handled the job without any problems. I won't kid you... it takes some time to take out a large stump... I define large as anything where the stump and rootball can't be lifted out of the crater once it's loose. The last photo shows one like that, which required digging a ramp and pushing it out. Smaller stumps take less time.

So it can be done. Whether that's the best choice for your situation or for anyone else's is beyond my pay grade, as they say.

Words of advice if you decide to go in this direction:
Get enough tractor and backhoe for the task.
Do it when the weather is cooperating, if possible.
Have time available when you can work at it.

I wouldn't disagree with any of the other comments about mini-excavators, excavators or contracting such work to others... all are probably quicker and less work. I would add to the list buying a used full-size TLB for the grubbing work, then selling it. Depending on circumstances, any of these routes might be cheaper than the backhoe, but not in every instance. But doing it with a backhoe is possible, can save money, and can be a useful hands-on experience under the right conditions.

 

[TripleR]

Unless you just love doing stumps and such, I agree with the others, rent a big machine or hire someone for the stumps and pond too unless it is a very small one and buy only enough tractor to maintain your property. I believe you will save money and have the right tractor in the end.

 

[DavesTractor]

Thats pretty funny Dave, others suggest a 20 ton excavator and you suggest a 2 ton tractor.:laughing:

I think it is because I only do it occasionally, and it comes without a cell phone, a desk, people asking questions...etc. Just me and the stumps. Basically, for the one or two days a year I might grab a tractor or an excavator and dig out stumps, I really do enjoy it. My son and I did about 30 large Pistachio trees one afternoon. I had an excavator and would dig one side, he'd cone along with a dozer behind me and push them out. Now what can be much more fun than that? Playing with big powerful toys!

 

[Gittyup]

Excavator or stump grinder, for sure. I had the same idea. My first stump was a 24" Norway maple. It took me something close to 8 hours to dig out that one stump. Then I had to deal with the 6' root ball that probably weighed somewhere around 3000 lbs. About a week later an excavator comes in to remove another stump and dig my swimming pool. To that big machine, the stump was like a clump of mud. It probably didn't take 5 minutes before it was out of the ground. Convinced me I had no business digging too many stumps. I've since removed a few with the backhoe. But, man it sure is hard on the equipment. Glad I don't have anything big like that anymore to do. I'd consider myself crazy if I thought I could do 50 big stumps! No way!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I am convinced buying your own heavy equipment just for your own personal use is NEVER cost effective.

Owning a motorhome is not cost effective compared to most other methods of taking a vacation but that does not stop MH sales.

Davestractor summed it up. If one likes to play in the dirty the big toys add to the level of fun.

Getting on a tractor and driving in circles with the bush hog running is about as good as it gets. All I was looking for was a FEL for the 265 MF but wound up with an old BH. I have some things I want to do that I could hire done but things like change the driveway, filling for a shop and a 15 minute dig here and there are hard to get done by a contractor IF for the only reason is that I am not sure how I want it done until the dirt starts moving.

A huge plus for older heavy equipment is if you do not break it you can sell it to another like yourself for what you gave for it so the upkeep cost and your time is your main cost. Someone told me to look at leasing. I think that would tense me up if I got sidetracked and the equipment was not being put to good use. I plan to get a dozer/trackhoe in for a few hours from time to time do things that does not make sense safety wise to do with either end of the BH or the tractor and 8' box blade.

I am fine with taking 10 hours to do a task that the right machine could do in one hour IF I am having fun and there are NO time deadlines. It is good for the kids to see and actually make holes too. At the age of 5 my dad put me on a model B AC when he was picking corn by hand and got tired of getting off and on it to pull up the wagon. I had to sit on the transmission to clutch it and he was there if something went wrong.

The love for equipment may come from being around it in the early years.