Please Critique This Device

[melchior]

Hi everyone,

I don't want to appear as a spammer and I am not trying to sell this to anyone (it isn't even on the market), just want to get your thoughts on this device...

what do you like about it?
what don't you like about it?
how could it be improved?
Would you buy it if it was on the market?

A small note about the device - It can be used on most any lock assembly, a tractor cab door, side panels, etc. not just the ignition switch as shown on the video. The idea is to deter theft. I could explain in more detail but it'd be better if you just take a look at the video on the site.

I am trying to get this device licensed by any or all of the major equipment manufacturers.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[Don87]

I did not click on your link, but in doing a search, Yahoo does not bring up the site.

 

[magicheater]

As I see on your video the original lock set needs to be modified. How costly is that to do?

 

[Groo]

oops double tap.

 

[Groo]

seams like a padlock and a short piece of chain would be as secure and much cheaper to implement. I've never had a reason to try, but I am guessing heavy equipment is pretty easy to hot-wire.

ps. your outer lock looks just like the locks I've seen some on exposed spare tire (like on a Jeep Wrangler) lug nuts.

 

[melchior]

@Don - Yes the site is new and currently has minimal traffic so I wouldn't expect it to be at the top of any search engines.

@magicheater - You are correct, it will need to be replaced with a slightly modified version. This isn't really difficult to do in most cases, and I would not expect it to be very expensive. The cost will be inevitably be up to whoever decides to license the device and put it on the market.

Thank you both for your responses!

 

[RandyBell]

Yes that would address alot of issues since the key for caterpillar hasn't changed in 40 years. If you keep your price down and make it on volume you stand a chance,but if you price it thinking that your product is a total theft protection you won't stand a chance. The equiptment is to easy to bypass and start anyways.

 

[melchior]

@Groo - Interesting, I've never seen the spare tire locks that you mention, I'll have to check them out.

As for the hot-wiring, I can't attest to its ease. It may very easy, but I think you are missing the point. Do people hot wire cars? Sure. Is that a reason to give every Chevy Tahoe the same key? Of course not.

 

[melchior]

@RandyBell - Thanks for your input. I agree with you that this isn't by any means an end-all solution for equipment security. It is becoming apparent that this device will be more valuable to persons with equipment that has enclosed cabs. By equipping the tractor's doors & compartments with the device will mimic the security of a personal vehicle.

 

[Groo]

actually, now that I think of it, the key lock lug nut I had to use was on a Geo Tracker.

While I agree unique keys would be better, I think the likely great ease of hot-wiring would limit the use of an ignition locker like that. how easy is it to reach the back of the ignition switch?

Snowmobiles do the same things as heavy equipment. maybe even worse, because you'd need nowhere near 31 keys. Skidoo actually started putting chips in their keys but still kept the generic universal key cut. I assume they went that route because the machines are so simple to hot-wire. It would take about 5 seconds and require no tools on my old Arctic Cat. good if you lose the key out in the middle of nowhere. not so great if someone drives off with your sled.

 

[aczlan]

I see 2 issues with this:
1. On smaller equipment (like the Kubota in the demo the video), you could hotwire the keyswitch in under a minute as there is easy access to the back of the switch
2. With heavy equipment, each operator has a keyring with a half dozen keys which will start any of the 20 machines they may need in that day. With this system, each person would need 20 keys.

Personally I think that heavy equipment will go to something like the Bobcat "keyless" system which requires an operator code to run.
That could be tied into a cellphone to provide a "lojack" type system that complained when you tried to run it outside of business hours, could instantly lockout a fired employee, couls report when it was stolen, could be remotely be shut down in such a case and could do other useful things.

But that's just my $0.02 as an IT guy who is interested in heavy equipment and thinks of security.

Aaron Z

 

[melchior]

Thanks for all the feedback! Keep it coming! If this device goes to market, we want to address every concern

 

[hosspuller]

Depending on the equipment, the extra length of the lockdown could be a problem. The piece used in the video looks like my knee would preclude its use.

 

[MasseyWV]

I think it's an interesting concept.

However, considering the ease of hotwiring most heavy equipment, a better approach might be to create a locking valve for the fuel line(s). A potential thief might get it started, but it wouldn't run for long.

 

[CowwFace]

I agree with hoss ... The length of the device would get it busted off by the operators legs.

 

[aczlan]

I agree with hoss ... The length of the device would get it busted off by the operators legs.

Agreed, I have a hard enough time with the key on our B7500 and L3830, that key+barrel would make it dangerous to the switch and my knees.

Aaron Z

 

[jmc]

One of the best things about TBN is seeing peoples' inventiveness.

If those locks are typical pin and tumbler locks, why not just take the lock to a locksmith and have him interchange two pins (and cut the new key)? Seems like a $25 job. There's thousands of possible combinations on a 5 pin lock. Or replace the original lock with one like in your prototype?

Please take this as constructive: with our short attention spans on the Internet, you should show the video earlier. Cut out some of the product rationale or show it later for those who are interested after seeing the video.

Good luck with your project.

 

[slowzuki]

My first thought looking at the barrel was that with the extra leverage the cylinder adds, a small hammer or cheater pipe could be used to pop the barrel off the modified lock. I'm not sure if that would damage the base lock.

My second thought was the same as above, rekeying the locks, but that would preclude the original master key.

Most older equipment the locks hardly qualify as locks, they are like a filing cabinet, inserting a screwdriver such that all the pins are lifted you can turn the lock or even pop the cylinder out if you wanted. Some newer ones are at least a 4 or more pin tumbler I suppose, cheap and easy to recut.

My last concern is using it on doors. Here if the kid or whoever can't just open the door, they throw a rock through it. Not a big deal on old stuff but with 1000$+ multi-plane curved glass, its a real cost. Besides engine imobilizers I'm not sure what better options there are.

 

[rhett]

Would you buy it if it was on the market?

No.
Most all Heavy equipment is diesel powered. Meaning the only function of the electric keyed switch is to turn on and off electrical power for accessories, also the momentary use to activate the starters solenoid.

Locks are to keep honest people Honest. Thieves will find a way to circumvent any security device, especially with heavy equipment. Heavy equipment thieves have to show up with heavy equipment for theft. Even a young vandal with minimal knowledge could find the starter and jump start the equipment.

As mentioned, a fuel lockout would be a good deterrent if well hidden.

A good alternative for security in isolated locations is to remove one or two key components. Such as the linkage to key functions (clutch, throttle, etc...). Electrical locks are pretty much pointless for equipment that needs no electricity to run.

Just my thoughts
Good Luck

EDIT: In the video it does show the equipment shutdown with the key. I do not have a newer model tractor so I do not know what is electrically controlled for the shutdown, Electric fuel injectors or electric fuel shut off? Not so sure I like that feature on the newer equipment, electronics are so prone to failure for a number of reasons. More things to troubleshoot when the equipment fails to start, then again it could be viewed as an assist component for Electrical Theft deterrent. If it is Electronic Fuel Injection, I would have to consider that as a Negative before purchasing a newer model.

 

[melchior]

Something else for you to think about: I have had many people express concerns who have large fleets of tractors, and often not all tractors are of the same brand. They say "I'm not carrying around 30 keys for all of these tractors when I could have only 5 or 6". But here is where they are wrong - they could have each tractor equipped with a Universal Lockdown device that is keyed the same, just like you would have done on your door locks at home. Then they would only need one key for all the tractors, no matter the brand.

Thanks a lot, keep the feedback coming!