planting corn 101

[Freds]

I thought I would revive this post to mention some things that one of my customers told me today. Her and her husband's family grow corn commercially nearby.

Besides saying how much work it is (hmmm, maybe if you're a professional farmer) she said that they spray for bugs every week up until one week before harvest. I don't recall anyone mentioning very much about spraying insecticide in any of the recent posts on planting gardens and was wondering if this is just a "given".

She also said that it needed cultivated all the time to keep the weeds down. They run cultivators through their corn patches, but I don't think I can do this with my present equipment. Not unless my rows were 73" apart anyway... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I reread where someone runs a hand tiller between the rows for this, but I just bought a 60" tiller for the back of my tractor, I was hoping not to purchase anymore stuff for a while. Are there any options to this besides though hand operated, little, spikey garden tillers you see in the commercials one in a while?

I was thinking my patch, including possibly other garden stuff, would be about 50' x 100' or so. Is this a bad size? You know, too big without the right equipment?

Another person I was speaking with a week ago told me that you plant 2-3 seeds/hole and then cull the extras so you have a plant in every hole. I'll be doing it by hand (that I know of, there's an auction coming up the end of the month) and wondered if this is how those corn row planters do it? This part does sound like a lot of work, even for a hobby garden. Does anyone here plant corn this way?

Thanks

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( plant 2-3 seeds/hole )</font>

Freds, when I was a kid in Oklahoma, I was told you plant 5:

One for the worm
One for the crow
One to rot, and
Two to grow.
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Seriously though, I usually planted most seed in my garden a bit thick. It's lots easier to cull some than to fill in bare spots.

 

[Freds]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'll chant that as I'm planting, Bird. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Laminarman]

I have similar questions. I will be planting at least an acre, and am waiting for a single row planter to arrive. What about fertilizing? Do some guys spread fertilizer when they plant, and is it liquid?

 

[Freds]

Lam, does your planter dispense more than one seed per hole? I've seen them in pics, but have no idea to the mechanics. I have a hard time thinking that a commercial grower would walk the rows and cull the extra plants. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Did you have any info on weeding and if so, how did you intend to do it?

The one person I talked with said to till and spread fertilizer. I don't remember the name right now, but it is specifically for corn. Let it sit a couple weeks then plant. It's a solid.
People generally plant here areound Memorial Day due to the ground temps, so I have a ways to go.

Some corn is planted already. They have it covered.
I wish I had a better idea how this is done, I live across from grape vineyards. They use skinny tractors to work between the rows while they are growning, but corn rows are planted closer and I'm wondering how much can really be done with my tractor after planting is done.

/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[billbill1]

I use a garden seeder that I bought from TSC (if I remember correctly) It has changable plates that plants many different seeds. It spaces the seeds at the correct space, drops them, and covers the seed with dirt afterward. One that I have has a bin for fertilizer while planting but I haven't tried that feature. I use mine with great success every year, the last I knew they were around $80 but it is well worth it. I plant radishes, corn, beans, lettuce, beets, turnips, and swiss chard with mine, no bending over (although that probably wouldn't hurt me any) just walk a straight line and it does the rest.

 

[HRS]

Freds
I've been gardening for about six years now so this is a little of what I've learned.

Insecticide: Since it is in my garden, I stay away from the use of any chemical I can. The worms will get into the silk of some of your corn if you don't spray for them but only in the very tip. Simply break the tip off when you clean it. Much of your corn will be "bug free" even if you don't spray for them. Now I do have to admit that the blight has me using a spray to stop it. It seems to get on my pear trees and tomatoes during the rainy season of spring and early summer. I use a product by Ortho. Once it dries up, even that problem corrects itself.

Cultivator: With a garden 50' x 100' I would seriously consider a walk behind tiller. My garden is nearly as big, 50' x 70', and I wouldn't do without my tiller. I plant my rows 3 to 4 feet apart and run the tiller down the centers as the weeds grow. It doesn't take long at all. The only time in which I have wished that I had a tractor mounted tiller is on the initial cut after the long winter, but it sounds like you have that part covered. Once the ground is softened, a tiller can very quickly weed even a large garden. As far as the type tiller I use, It is called a Maxim. It has been around for years and has very heavy cutting blades. However, it is not
"self propelled" but it didn't take me long to learn how to use it. One that "walks" itself would be an absolute charm to have.

Planting: Use weeper hoses. I started using them four years ago and love them. Once you have given your garden a good soaking with them, the row stays moist for days even in drought conditions. Stretch the hose out along your row, and rake soil over it. If you keep them covered while in the garden, they will last for many seasons. As far as placing seed, try this. Take a broom handle and drag out a 3/4 inch trench along side of the weeper hose. Walk along and liberally sprinkle your corn seed, bean seed, etc in the trench. Drop the seed close, it doesn't take many seed to plant a garden the size you are talking about. Cover them with a rake. Once they come up, pull the ones you don't won't. True, a farmer planting with a corn planter will not do it this way. I also plant around 2 acres of corn with a tractor mounted planter. Here I select the "plate" that disperses the seeds as I want. Since I'm dealing with acreage here, I'm not so concerned about the few that don't germinate as I am in my garden. I put a little more effort into my garden each year and am well rewarded for it.

Seed: Make sure your seed packs are stamped with this year's date. If so, you will not have any problem with germination. Stay away from those that aren't dated. I have wasted weeks waiting on bad seeds to germinate before.

Weeding: I've learned that this chore usually ends once the plants get a little over a foot high. They eat up most of the sun trying to reach the weed seed directly beneath them and your tiller will take care of the centers.

fertilizer: I only use 10-10-10 and pelitized lime. I'll apply three times. Once at planting and then about a month apart after that. It works. I've grown some beautiful plants. I don't like dure nitrogen do to the fact that it so easily burns.

I hope this helps.

By the way, the garden is planted. I just finished it today. Let's see, in my 50 x 70 foot garden I have 35 tomato plants, squash, okra, bell peppers, egg plants, corn, pole beans, cucumber, and water melon. That's it... I think? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Depending on your setup you can spread dry or liquid fertilizer. I have dry boxes on my planter but a lot of guys run liquid and add tanks to their tractor so they don't have to reload as often. If your planter is not set up for fertilizer then you can spread some dry fertilizer before you plant via a 3pt spreader or if you are doing enough a large bulk spreader. This picture is of a liquid setup

 

[Robert_in_NY]

This is the same planter but with a dry setup.

 

[Freds]

Thanks, lots of stuff I can use.
Looks like I don't have weeding covered, but if I plant my rows 4 feet apart like you said, I may be able to get my lawn tractor between the rows with some type of weeder or cultivator. I think I will also use this for spreading the fertilizer so there will be less compaction.

I'm not too far from a creek, maybe I can incorporate those weeper hoses and some kind of pump and use the creek water for watering, otherwise it's a little out of a spigot's reach.

I'm not big on insecticides, but I'm not big on corn that something else has been snacking on either /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I'm going to play this one by ear /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[HRS]

Something else that might help with the weeds. I was in my local nursery the other day and saw a little two gallon tank with a spray shield attached to the end of the spray nozzle. With a little Roundup and a very calm day... hmmm... just might do the trick. I am tempted to try it out on one of my rows.

I do spray a drain ditch that runs near my house once the weeds start growing, and they stay dead for the rest of the summer. I also do this along the perimeter of my fence. I've nicknamed Roundup my Weadeater in a Bottle. If you try this, you might want to purchase the concentrate and mix it in a spray tank yourself. The premixed formula works, but seems a little weak. Just my experience.

 

[Indydirtfarmer]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Thanks, lots of stuff I can use.
Looks like I don't have weeding covered, but if I plant my rows 4 feet apart like you said, I may be able to get my lawn tractor between the rows with some type of weeder or cultivator. I think I will also use this for spreading the fertilizer so there will be less compaction. )</font>

RED FLAG!!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I wouldn't suggest planting rows 4' apart. Corn needs to be planted in rows closer than that, so it can pollinate efficiently. Plant your rows in such a way that your tractor can straddle the rows. If corn doesn't pllinate, there will be no kernels on the ears....And that ain't a good thing..... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Freds]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Plant your rows in such a way that your tractor can straddle the rows )</font>

I could straddle the rows until they get about a foot tall, but what will I do while straddling them /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Do they make cultivators to dig up the weeds that are "split" in the middle so as not to dig up the corn if you are straddling the stalks? Like I said, I've never seen corn worked on, so I have no idea what is used to weed a crop too big to weed by hand. Not that mine is going to be too big, but I want to do as much with my tractor as possible.

I may try roundup, or "credit" in my case. I have a spray outfit for my tractor with a wand and sizeable length of hose. The more I read the more it seems I need a walk behind tiller, too /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Indydirtfarmer]

A true "Row Crop Cultivator" does straddle the rows. For instance, a 2-row cultivator has 3 sets of shanks. each outside set works half a row, and the middle one would work the full row in the middle. Then you move over 2 rows and do it all over again. The ouside 1/2 row will then work the un-tilled half from the previous pass. We cultivate SOME of our corn every year with an 8-row unit. (Matches up with my 8-row planter)

For what you're doing, I'd suggest you go with the walk-behind tiller. Plant your rows at 30" minimum to 40" max. That will allow adaquate polination.

 

[HRS]

Fred,

I think I have a site here that might help you in the future. This company makes tractor mounted planters for the large gardener and small farmer. I grew up using a Covington Planter, and they are very effective planting/cultivating machines. This coming winter I will be replacing an old single row planter that is as old as dirt itself. I'm going with the 1 Row Planting Unit which is pictured on the TP 707 cultivator frame. As Indy was describing, the cultivator is the device that works the ground on both sides of the planter. With this unit, you would take off the planter once your planting is completed. That which is left, TP 707, which is also pictured independently, is the cultivator. Then you go back over the row of corn, beans, etc. Yes, this planter can plant just about anything. You will notice that the feet on this cultivator are bolted on. They can also be removed and feet called sweeps added in their place. these have essentially wings that extend out on either side to cut up the weeds. These weeps come in just about every size imaginable. You simple go to a local tractor supply store and select ones that will work. You know, experiment. It sounds like you have the ability to make your garden even larger than 50x100. With a planter/cultivator like this, you could easily work several acres if you choose or a rather small garden. The big box out in front of the planting unit is what fertilizer, 5-10-15, is added too when planting. The seeds go into the small box shown on the rear. It is a very simple design that has been around since nearly the turn of the century and it works great. The one I have now is so old the sheet metal is rusting through everywhere.

I called the company and they told me to order about 2 months before needing. So keep this in mind for next planting season if you develop an interest in it. I've talked to a couple of dealers and they have quoted me prices from $850 to about $1200 for the entire setup: planter and cultivator. So like everything, you'll have to call around for the best price. Also, removing the planter is very simple. Loosen four bolts and it's off.

They also manufacture what is called a side dresser. This is a device that looks like the planter, but it is only used to apply nitrogen, etc. to your corn as you cultivate it. Indy could help us out here. I usually apply granulated nitrogen when the corn gets up around a foot tall. At this point, you are cultivating it for the last time, because soon it will be too tall, and your tractor would damage it. Once nitorgen is down, pray for rain. With a little water your corn will literally take off. This side dresser I've described looks like the planter but it runs along just on the side of your row. It will fit on the same single row cultivator that the planter takes. Just make sure you get the mounting brackets. Call the company. They are very helpful and will send info.

Now let me really confuse you. If you wanted to save a little money at first and just go with the planter and cultivator, maybe decide on the side dresser later, you can also apply nitrogen with the planter unit. Remember, it has a box up front that holds and applies fertilizer when planting. The way you do this is by removing the opening foot that tears up the ground just in front of the planter unit. Drive between the rows while hugging the edge of any given row. This will offset the planter just enough so that it is not running over your corn, and neither is your tractor. The dispenser will apply the nitrogen right down beside your corn. I know this sounds involved, but like anything, it is quite easy once you've done it once. We've actually applied nitrogen to our small corn patches like this for years. However, I do have my eyes on that side dresser. I'm hopping to pick it up next year as well. One cultivator frame is all that you need. However, if you know where they hold auctions for farm equipment, you can pick up frames like those shown in the picture for just a little.

I hope this helps. Even if you aren't interested in a planter/cultivator now, I promise you that you will if you get into gardening. Its like any hobby. Your toys for it never stop growing.

Enjoy /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Almost forgot
http://www.covingtonplanter.com

 

[Freds]

I want one!
Thanks for the link and explaining all this to me. I know what I will be buying myself next year. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
...And the sentence where you said you don't cultivate when the corn gets too tall was something that I thought never stopped, so you needed a walk behind tiller to keep on weeding it. Sounds like once the corn is established you can stop weeding it.

Thanks again

 

[Indydirtfarmer]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I want one!
Thanks for the link and explaining all this to me. I know what I will be buying myself next year. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
...And the sentence where you said you don't cultivate when the corn gets too tall was something that I thought never stopped, so you needed a walk behind tiller to keep on weeding it. Sounds like once the corn is established you can stop weeding it.

Thanks again )</font>

When (and IF) corn does it's thing correctly, it will shade out the ground below it at a certain point in it's growth. That's called the "canopy". When that happens, the lack of sunlight reaching the ground inhibits the growth (germination) of weeds. That is yet one more reason why corn does better in narrow rows.

I grow about 600 acres of corn, and about the same of soybeans. Back when my dad was farming, we planted our corn in 40" rows. About 1968, we started planting (corn) in 30" rows. In 1991, we started planting soybeans in 7" (solid stand, drilled) rows.

That accomplished several things. Since we're talking corn, let's forget about the soybeans for now. One benifit was with narrow rows, we could plant individual seeds further apart, and still achieve the same plant population. OR...Same seed spacing, and end up with 25% higher plant population. The wider seed spacing helped with planting accuracy. The planter just didn't have to work as hard. It also enabled a higher ground speed when planting, resulting in more acreage covered in a day.

When we went to closer seed spacing, and the narrow rows, we got the higher plant population (per acre). As seed hybrids were developed that worked with the high populations, total yields went up accordingly.

In the past few years, there has been more of a movement to planting in 20" rows. That requires a different corn head on the combine, but the same benifits that were realized with switching FROM 40" to 30", is available in switching from 30" to 20". (On a somewhat reduced scale, at this point)

Next year, I will be switching from an 8-row X 30" planter, to a 12-row X 20" version. (At that point, I'll be switching FROM solid stand soybeans to 20" rows... That is in responce to the threat of Asian Rust... More sunlight/air movement in between the rows helps reduce the chances of a fungal outbreak)

Finally, as I've touched upon in a prior post, corn needs to be next to OTHER corn to pollinate correctly. Narrow rows help with that issue. In theory (in FACT) a single row of corn, 100 feet long will not do as good as the same corn planted in 10 rows of 10 feet.

 

[Freds]

OK, all you corn planters... I just came back from Agway. I wanted to see what all they had in the line of seeds and they have the bodacious variety. I also want to pick up some beans and such and my father wants me to plant scallions. I'm assuming all this can be in the same garden and you only need to worry about cross-pollination between the same, similar plants like someone mentioned about corn.

I was told to spray once a week for bugs, so I went over to the insecticide aisle and wholy moly! They must have 20 different types for different things. The owner of the store said I need to know specifically what I am spraying for.

Can someone steer me to one "general" type of insecticide that is OK for corn and other veggies? I have heard it's the cutter worms (?) that you have to watch out for when it comes to corn around here. I'm willing to go the extra mile to get this garden to grow, but if I can cut a few corners (read $) I would prefer not to have half a dozen types of insecticides laying around if I can get by with one or two.

Also, is there a rule of thumb about losing a certain percentage of your garden to critters (rabbits, deer, turkeys...)? I'm hoping I don't need to fence atound it, so I want to know what I can expect to lose and will increase what I plant if that will cover me. The deer aren't very populous in my area any more, not since the coyotes moved in. I only see a couple each year making their way across my field and am actually hoping the corn will attract them back, just not lose the whole crop to them.

Thanks again

 

[kensfarm]

"I was told to spray once a week for bugs,"

We use Seven spray.. we only spray insecticide when needed.. a bug or two won't do you any harm.. but one of the reasons to grow your own veggies.. is to keep insecticide residue to a minimum. There are some organic methods & sprays.

The racoons seem to know when the sweet corn is ready.. usually a week or two before you do.

 

[Chuck52]

I dust with Sevin when I see problems. Last year I only had to use it on the okra for some kind of aphid, and on some of the tomatoes when there were so many horn worms I didn't have time to search them out and torture them to death on an individual basis. I really try not to use any insecticide if I can get by without. After I dusted the okra I thought I might have gotten by without it, but the aphids were sure making the pods sticky. Sevin has been around for years and seems to be relatively safe. There are so many ladybugs near my garden this year I hope they help me with the bad bugs, too.

This will be my first year for a real corn patch and I might be tempted to do some preventive spaying of the corn.....I'll see when and if I get a stand that doesn't disappear due to critter problems.

Chuck