Pipeline easement negotiating

[2LaneCruzer]

well we have delt with keystone pipeline.an it really wasnt all that hard todo.they made their offer an we said no then we countered with our offer an they knew where we stood an took it.an make sure you put 1 pipeline in the easement.they wont like it but theyll do it.now as for lawyers they will get most if no all of your payment.

It's true the lawyers will get their cut, but that can be small potatoes if they don't restore the land and get out of your hair. You don't want them storing equipment on the R.O.W, coming back in and adding something else or putting in another bigger pipeline; etc. In other words, you want them to leave the property like they found it (they won't) and never come back except maybe to inspect or for maintenance.

 

[bigbull338]

well they didnt slide anything over on us thats for sure.an they know we will get more damages out of them when they start clearing the right of way.plus they know they will pay for any damages to the cattle.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

well they didnt slide anything over on us thats for sure.an they know we will get more damages out of them when they start clearing the right of way.plus they know they will pay for any damages to the cattle.

Has the installation been completed? If so, how did it go for you?

 

[KretZ]

Resurrecting this old thread. Currently dealing with a "land-man" about putting a pipeline through our acreage. We have a lawyer who is pretty well versed in dealing with pipelines, so we are covered there. Being that we are still in the negotiation phase I am just putting a call out to find out if there is anyone out there that has actually been through this and come out on the other side of it not hating life. Or if anyone would be willing to share what kind of per foot price they got. The reason I ask is that the land dude seems really set hardcore on offering us a very very low per foot price. I have a feeling the more money he saves the company, the bigger his commision will be. Which is understandable, and I am not diluting myself into believing that our hometown lawyer could really stop a huge company. But at the same time, we would like fair compensation for the damage to our land. If anyone would feel more comfortable talking about per ft price via PM, that is fine.

 

[forgeblast]

Natural gas leasing and production information for landowners
is the site I wish I had when the landman came around.
Do you know what type of pipeline its going to be? ie a major transportation one or a gathering line from a well.
1. If he is being unreasonable tell him your done, and that if his company wants the pipeline to send someone else.
2. Be friendly but firm, its your land the pipeline is not there yet, once they are done it will be there for a long time.
3. go to the forum and it has row (right of way) pipeline amendments, etc, also the forum is set up by state. Ask for a great og lawyer in your area.
drive if you need to it will be worth the money.
4. do you want it on your property, yes then get the lawyer if not tell them no.
the pipeline work from my neighbors well is just finishing up, it went through his property and not mine. I was at one point getting calls from the head man but in the end I did not want it and they moved the location.

 

[forgeblast]

Also my one friend has a contract that states how the tree chips will be handled and how the soil ph will be along with when they are allowed to mow (not during hunting season) along with gates and locks....the neighbor no. It all comes down to your lawyer.

 

[KretZ]

Thanks for the link to the site forgeblast. So our hometown lawyer who is well versed in dealing with the gas oil industry has been explaining how things will happen if we do not cooperate. Basically he said the pipeline company is soon to have the ability to start work without ever getting a signature from us. The way he tells it, the company will leave a check with the local judge for what they are willing to pay us. At that point we can choose to go down to the court house and sign and recieve the money they are offering, or we can take them to court and try to make a case for why we deserve more than what they are willing to pay us. All the while the bulldozers will be rolling through whether an agreement has been reached or not. So this was making us pretty keen to come to an agreement quickly so we would have some say in process of making the agreement (i.e. whats to be done with the timber, are they going to grind the stumps of the trees they leave behind, will they double ditch) Cut to this week, a law firm from Columbus that specializes in pipeline easments puts on a meeting, and during this meeting they tell us that our lawyer is not speaking sense. They say there is no way they can start work until we have reached some type of agreement. Another slight red-flag for us was that the "land man" encouraged us to go our lawyer John Smith (name withheld) by name. Meaning the landman actually recommended our lawyer to us. We had not told him who we had decided to have represent us, but he recommended "John Smith" to us and offered to pay John Smith's fee. The tough part is we have done a lot of business with John Smith for years, and we trust/trusted him. So its hard to believe that he is in the pipeline companies pocket. But the evidence is kind of pointing in that direction. So we are left with the decision of which blood sucking lawyer to believe. Hometown John Smith esq paints a pretty bleak picture and encourages us to take their low-ball offer, and Big City lawfirm tells us this is a serious pipeline and we are in a good position to get a fair price for the damage/devaluation to our property.

 

[forgeblast]

My lawyer, who only works for landowners, told us there would be no fee for us because his fee was included in the row agreement. No offense to anyone, but when a Landman gives me a recommendation I normally do the opposite. After dealing with the OG companies for a while the only people that drive me crazy are the landmen/women. Go with the big guy, ask about his fee's if they are rolled into the row, and have some piece of mind that they are working for you.
http://www.pagasleaseattorney.com/ this lawyer does a weekly shale program http://www.pagasleaseattorney.com/radio-show-archive.html are the archives if you want to listen to what he has to say.

 

[crackerjack222]

I could write a book on my mistakes in negotiating pipeline ROW agreements.
First, get rid of John Smith the "lawyer", he is not working for you. My experience with lawyers negotiating these agreements for me has been poor at best. There is no substitute for doing your own research whether you hire a lawyer to help or not. There are resource online to educate you if you have the time.
Be sure there is a termination clause in the agreement. Best if it says the ROW easement will terminate in 50, 60, or ?? years. Otherwise it is a permanent thing on the title/ownership of the property. An alternative is to terminate the ROW if the pipeline is not used for it's intended purpose for 12 or 24 consecutive months. Be sure the agreement restricts the size, depth and number of pipelines (one and one only) in the ROW. Specify that there will be no surface facilities (valve sites, compressors, etc) other than cathodic protection and markers. Specify that the ROW is for use only for one pipeline to transport gas (or oil) and not for fiber optic or electric transmission or for any other use. Be sure to address what will happen when they no longer are using the pipeline, either remove at their expense and remediate, or cut, purge and cap. They will try to leave it in the ground and ignore it, then the liability will be on you.
There is much more, but more than I can go into here. There are several good web-sites that discuss this. Google things like pipeline easements, eaglefordforum(dot)com, gohaynesvilleshale(dot)com, mineralrightsforum(dot)com and do some searching and reading. It will be time well spent.
It is hard to say what you should ask for in compensation, but at least ask for double or triple what they are offering. Just be aware that if they are an interstate pipeline co they can use eminent domain to force you to accept their offer, or an offer acceptable to a court. Most likely they will be willing to pay more than their first offer just to avoid going to court.

 

[oosik]

Hmmmm!! All of this talk of eminent domain & the ability of privately owned companies exercising this right makes my hackles bristle. Without getting into a real rant - I'm so glad we have none of this in our area. Telephone & power - yes, but that's a ball game of a different sort.

 

[crackerjack222]

To oosik, yes there are hassles having to deal with oil co's and pipeline co's but having a few oil wells makes me a much better rancher.....:licking:
Besides the toys I can afford.:thumbsup:

 

[oosik]

crackerjack222 - Ahhh, yes. You see, I never thought of that. I guess I can see that for your inconvenience there can be joy. I did not read all the posts in this thread but the ones I read - there was no mention of wells on their property. That, alone, could make a substantial difference.

 

[SPIKER]

there are a couple Associations here in Northern Ohio run by a couple attorneys that have HQ in both Cleveland and Columbus. They rep ONLY land owners but in a way to pool the clients we pay set fee to join their association and a per acre fee. This is a one time fee and land owners agree to leasing under best circumstances for clients & oil company gets agreeable body of people to work with..

Mohican Land Owners association is one I belong to but the push stopped one county east of me... :/

The Daily Digger: Mohican Basin Landowners Waiting For the Right Offer

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mohican-Basin-Landowners-Association/203258813034566

these are older links, like I said not much happened lately... BUT look for landowners association in your area and talk to the people local to you down that way..

Mark

 

[KretZ]

So things are starting to get more interesting. We have a lawyer representing us, hoping he does his job properly. I am cautiously optimistic, but there is one thing I really dont understand. Maybe someone here could add some insight. So the pipeline company is finally getting close to talking about what we consider fair compensation. So in one message they offer some carrot and show what I am guessing is the stick. They say basically here is the price we are offering, the pipeline company is in the process of having appraisals done on all the tracts of land belonging to people who have yet to sign. And they say they don't want it to come to that because that will be the new starting point for negotiations. Basically hinting that its going to be lower than what they just offered. My question is, why would they offer me more money and then say "take this now, or else its going to be less"? If there was a way they could pay me less, why wouldnt they just pay me less? Why offer more? Like I said, we have a lawyer who is handling this for us while we are overseas, but it just makes me curious. Thought maybe a TBN'r could make sense of this for me.

 

[dave1949]

Because time is money to the pipeline outfit as far as access to your land is concerned.

They could pay you more now, rather than (possibly) less later and save money overall.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Because time is money to the pipeline outfit as far as access to your land is concerned.

They could pay you more now, rather than (possibly) less later and save money overall.

They are also saying, in a round about way, that we're willing to pay a reasonable amount now, but if we get the lawyers involved, we will only pay what we have to. It may also just be a subterfuge for them to get off easy.

 

[crackerjack222]

KretZ, the talk about appraisal is just talk. The landman is paid to do the dirty work in getting land owners signed up. You have to assume if a landman's lips are moving, he's lying. The options available to the pipeline co are eminent domain (which neither you nor they want to do) if they are intersate, going around you, or paying a fair price. To get a fair price you have to hold your ground (literally and figuratively). The first landowners to sign will get the lowest price and least favorable terms.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Inevitably, they have eminent domain and after lawyer costs by both sides, they can usually get the rights permitted for appraised cost.
I think if you work with them, they'll adjust the location a bit. Depending on type will determine depth. I would ask for them to come back a year later and make sure the ground is level as it was in the first place.
There are probably special circumstances for crop loss, etc. I would recommend you work with them rather than fight them. My .02 cents.

 

[forgeblast]

Because the Landman doesnt work for you they will tell you all sorts of things. They want to scare you into jumping into a company positive contract. Stick with the person on your side...your lawyer.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

He might also be telling you that your not the only option. They get paid to find the cheapest route to get a line in the ground.