Pipeline easement negotiating

[shibaura_4043]

I wasn't sure what forum to post in so sorry if this one is incorrect.... Oneok Sterling III Pipeline is buying up land in my area for a 16" NGL pipeline. They have offered me 5k for .81acres of land or 42.82 Rods @ 100.00 plus damages. I told him I'd get back with him. My neighbor settled at 7k for the same acreage including damages. I would like to see closer to 9.5-10k... my justification is smaller tracts of land <3acres typically go for close to 10k per acre add in damages of 1500.00 or so and your right around 10k . Does this sound reasonable to you guys? I will now have 100ft of easement running parallel to one another which really hurts resale value too. Is there anything I should include in the contract other than the easement dedicated to one pipeline only and no surface obstructions or structures without renegotiating the contract?

 

[beersngars]

Where are you located?

 

[aczlan]

First and foremost, I would find a good land lawyer (not just any lawyer, specifically someone who deals in land contracts, easements, etc) and have them look over the contract.
Couple of things that I have heard mentioned:

• Is there a different construction easement vs permanent easement? I have heard of a (for example) 200' wide 8 month construction easement and a 75' permanent easement.
• What are they going to do with topsoil? One thing that has been talked about on here is requiring double ditching (ie: take the topsoil off and put it in one pile, then the other dirt in another pile). That keeps you from ending up with a bunch of clay on top and the topsoil down bottom.
• What restrictions are there on you putting something over the easment? ie: waterline, cable tv, power, driveway (paved vs gravel?), etc
• What is listed in there about gates? Another thing that has come up on here is having a gate at each end (with your lock and their lock on it) to keep unauthorized people from driving up and down the easement
• How about advance notification? Not uncommon to have a required 24-48hrs notification for them to enter their easement on your property except in emergencies.

Aaron Z

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Here's some things to consider:
1. They will bring in heavy equipment, dig a big hole, keep the area torn up for an unknown amount of time, probably put the topsoil back in first; leave a ditch that will subside in a year or two; will not grow grass without constant watering, etc.

2. It's entirely possible they could come in later, replace it with a larger line or different composition, which means that you will have to go through it all over again, unless you specify otherwise.

3. If it were me, I would make the easement specific to one entity, and one entity only, so that they cant sell, lend, lease or otherwise transfer their rights to someone else. I would specify that the easement is a one time TEMPORARY easement, for the purpose of installing a pipeline and normal maintenance.

4. I would requre that anything other than normal maintenance will require a new lease. I would make sure that the surface rights, mineral rights, etc. remain with me, and they are responsible for any damage to your property resulting from the line, it's maintenance, etc.

5. Of course, I would make it clear that I still retain the complete and absolute surface rights, to use, lease or sell as I saw fit, as long as it didn't hinder the pipeline.

6. I would probably hire a lawyer, discuss these things, make sure they are strictly liable for all damages, and to make sure that there are no safety issues or problems in the future, like indicated above;, i.e., topsoil, subsidence, re-entry, installing new lines, transfer of easement rights; use of easement for other purposes, etc.

You might also consider how you want them to enter and exit your property; fences, etc.

Good luck.

 

[Combustix]

Just read a story in the Seattle times about a ranch in Texas that held out on an easement from keystone. They condemned her ranch and taking her land. Crawford was the name in the article. She's fighting it in the courts.

 

[dodge man]

They will not accept the easement unless they can sell the pipeline. This only makes sense since the companies buy and sell all the time. If they sell, they can't expect the buyer to go around and get easements all over again.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

They will not accept the easement unless they can sell the pipeline. This only makes sense since the companies buy and sell all the time. If they sell, they can't expect the buyer to go around and get easements all over again.

Fair enough; and I know from experience what you say is true. It's a simple matter to add a clause that restricts the easement to owner of the pipeline.

 

[lockhaven]

Just read a story in the Seattle times about a ranch in Texas that held out on an easement from keystone. They condemned her ranch and taking her land. Crawford was the name in the article. She's fighting it in the courts.

I think would vary from state to state, Pennsylvania gave the gas companies the right to condemn property only for certain pipelines. I do not know the particulars.

 

[Brant]

Is there anything I should include in the contract other than the easement dedicated to one pipeline only and no surface obstructions or structures without renegotiating the contract?

Get an oil and gas attorney or roll the dice and very probably suffer the consequences. Relying on this (or any) board for free legal advice is not a good idea.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

It would help to know what state you are in. As I have said before, right-of-ways are like herpes, they are forever and they are going to cause you pain periodically. Plus, do you know what NGL's are? Can you envision what will happen if a NGL line ruptures?

Second, follow ACZlan, 2LaneCruiser, and Brant's advice. If you are one of those people who thinks they are smarter than the Right-of-way agent, you deserve what you will get.

 

[shibaura_4043]

It would help to know what state you are in. As I have said before, right-of-ways are like herpes, they are forever and they are going to cause you pain periodically. Plus, do you know what NGL's are? Can you envision what will happen if a NGL line ruptures?

Second, follow ACZlan, 2LaneCruiser, and Brant's advice. If you are one of those people who thinks they are smarter than the Right-of-way agent, you deserve what you will get.

Im in Texas, Hunt county area, yes I know what Natural Gas Liquid is, but I cant get so demanding that they take me to court,have my property condemned and I get zero or very little compensation... I do not think Im smarter than an agent who has been doing this for years, however I do think I'm competent enough to negotiate a fair deal. I might call a oil and gas attorney tomorrow to get an idea of what their services will cost. I got a feeling its probably not worth it.

 

[lockhaven]

I do not know about Texas but in Pennsylvania my neighbor and I met with an attorney to get advise then we made a proposal to the gas company told them what we wanted. They added a clause to the contract that met our needs. The most important thing is to have binding arbitration that way they will have a harder time outspending you in court if they decide to break the contract. My feeling are if they are honest in their intent to put a pipeline in and nothing more they should not have a problem with your concerns and put it in the contract, if not then they do have some future plans. Just my 2cents

 

[greasemonkeyok]

You are in luck. Start with the issues discussed in this presentation and the resources they note:
http://recenter.tamu.edu/speeches/pdf/JF052010S1205.pdf

Google the cases they cite in the presentation, and you will see that the pipeline does not always have the right of eminent domain. Then, when you talk to an attorney you will be able to judge how up to speed he or she is on the law of condemnation.

Also, this article has some good ideas:
http://un-naturalgas.org/EricCampsPipeLineNegotiation.pdf

Google the explosion of the Pacific Gas and Electric's San Bruno line. Not meant to scare, but still something to ponder since it is a NGL line they want to put in on you.

Good luck.

 

[dmccarty]

....I do not think Im smarter than an agent who has been doing this for years, however I do think I'm competent enough to negotiate a fair deal. I might call a oil and gas attorney tomorrow to get an idea of what their services will cost. I got a feeling its probably not worth it.

It is not a question of who is smarter, it is a question of who has more knowledge. Since you are asking for advice on TBN, which is a good thing, you don't have the knowledge. You need to get the knowledge and TBN is a good start but a lawyer, in your state, with experience in this area of law, is really what you need.

We have talked to quite a few lawyers over the years asking for advice. Not once did we get billed. Not one penny and we asked to get billed. Don't assume that the lawyer will bill for advice and two, that the bill will be expensive. You are looking at a money transaction and allowing someone else to use your property. I would be finding a good lawyer ASAP to get advice, almost certainly read the contract, and make changes to protect me as much as possible.

If the money you are getting for the easement, will not cover the cost of the lawyer, I would not be selling the easement.

Later,
Dan

 

[lockhaven]

you might want to check out a similar thread on NorthEast the OP there told the land man to take a hike after consulting an lawyer

 

[2LaneCruzer]

It is not a question of who is smarter, it is a question of who has more knowledge. Since you are asking for advice on TBN, which is a good thing, you don't have the knowledge. You need to get the knowledge and TBN is a good start but a lawyer, in your state, with experience in this area of law, is really what you need.

We have talked to quite a few lawyers over the years asking for advice. Not once did we get billed. Not one penny and we asked to get billed. Don't assume that the lawyer will bill for advice and two, that the bill will be expensive. You are looking at a money transaction and allowing someone else to use your property. I would be finding a good lawyer ASAP to get advice, almost certainly read the contract, and make changes to protect me as much as possible.If the money you are getting for the easement, will not cover the cost of the lawyer, I would not be selling the easement.

Later,
Dan

You really should talk to a lawyer; dm is right...if it ends up in litigation, odds are you will call the lawyer that gave you the free advice. Don't downplay this thing; an easement is one thing that will be with you forever, and these folks care less about you or your property. Remember...they will hire CONTRACTORS to do the digging, pipe laying, etc. and they regard you as a problem and will leave you with a disaster if it serves their purpose. Just try to get anything done then; nobody will know you or them; all they will do is point fingers and you will be forced to go to court if you want something done. Ask me how I know. I have been through this twice; lost my fruit trees, my raised bed garden, my grass, my topsoil, and now have some subsidence areas that will require topsoil hauled in. There's a lot more to the story, but that should suffice.

Dennis

 

[dodge man]

I'll just add a few things to this thread. There is usually standard rates that are paid for these easements. There has to be or people would ask for crazy amounts of money and none of us would have natural gas, electricity, gasoline, LP, phones etc. They most likely will be able to condemn property to put this in. They have to put the thing somewhere, so you can't tell them "put it over there" because that person doesn't want it anymore than you. There are times they can change a route to help people out at very little cost to them. Yes something like this does burden your property and hurts its value. Good Luck.

 

[shibaura_4043]

"It is not a question of who is smarter, it is a question of who has more knowledge. Since you are asking for advice on TBN, which is a good thing, you don't have the knowledge. You need to get the knowledge and TBN is a good start but a lawyer, in your state, with experience in this area of law, is really what you need. "


I agree with you dmccarty, but I have done a lot of research on this subject and asked numerous people who have been in the same situation for advice. I feel like I have enough knowledge of ROW agreements to negotiate my own contract. Am I the most knowlegeable person on this subject?? probably not... but I definitely didn't go into negotiations blind. I thought I would ask on this very informative forum for another perspective. After adding several special conditions and agreeing on a fair market price for the property and damages we executed what I feel was a fair contract for the Grantor/Grantee.... thanks for all the replies....time will only tell how fair the contract really is. :thumbsup:

 

[forgeblast]

Dealing with this right now. I was just called back by the landman who after we turned down his inital offer, said well we can make the easement much smaller and increase the $$ offered and replant any trees of yours we destroy. Thats a lot different then the inital offer.
Most oil/gas attorneys can do a pipleline row for about 1500-2000, and that will be put into the lease that the company pays them first. There is a chance after going through all this that they will choose a different route and then you dont get your bonus payment. Our attorney I have talked to at least 3-4 times on this has not charged me yet. They said that they would if we went ahead with the lease work.
Around here too they use a different landman for each neighbor that way each is kind of kept in the dark. Information is the key to dealing with them and they controll most of it.

 

[bigbull338]

well we have delt with keystone pipeline.an it really wasnt all that hard todo.they made their offer an we said no then we countered with our offer an they knew where we stood an took it.an make sure you put 1 pipeline in the easement.they wont like it but theyll do it.now as for lawyers they will get most if no all of your payment.