pipe fence

[tglass]

Anyone know how to cut the miter between the posts so they are parallel to each other when building a pipe fence ? Using a template one end is fine, but the other end is always a few degrees off or twisted. Hard to get a good weld there. Suggestions?

 

[RPW]

Haven't done it yet but this is how I'm planning on dealing with the very problem you're talking about. With the pipe on saw horse's I was going to make a template to make the mark to cut. Also was going to make a short vertical pipe on a stand (template was also going to be on a stand). Once the first cut is made using the vertical pipe to hold the pipe in position mark the other end and cut. Sounds good in theory and we'll see how it works.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

There are a ton of threads on this topic here and on the welding forums, shop floor talk, welding web, Ask Andy (Miller), Hobart, etc.

I don't have any problem with it. What I do is I measure inside to inside posts. I add the notch cut. I use a Vogel (google it) pipe notcher so it's nuts on measurement. Let's say it's one and a quarter of an inch, five eighth's of an inch each end. If you're having trouble keeping the notches parallel then you can cheat by using the seam that is inside the pipe. You can put that mark on your pipe at each end on the outside. That will be the center of your cope, notch, saddle, however they say it where you are.

I like loose fit ups. They will keep your line of fence straighter. I see folks hammering them in because the length is too long and then they wonder why their fence like looks like it has snake itis.

Once again, measure inside to inside at each rail, just in case your posts aren't plumb. Add the notch measurement, let's say your inside measurement is 95", with the notch it will be 96 1/4" if you're using two inch schedule forty pipe. Cut your pipe, find the seam, mark each end at the seam. Do your notching. Your rail should slide freely up and down between the posts. You will need clamps to locate it for tacking. If you don't need to support it for tacking then you're rail is too long and you need to shorten it.

Let's say you find your rail is too short, it happens. The way I always do it is I do the longest spans where I'm working first. That way if I cut one too short, happens, I can either find a span where it fits as is or I only have to trim up one end to find a place where it will fit.

Another trick is to ALWAYS weld vertical up. It's a better weld and it is easier, really, promise. Yesterday I spent two hours repairing a repair made by a welder who ran 7018 down on sixteen gauge fence tube, galvanized, notched and fitted five rails 2 3/8" O.D. I hit his welds with the wire brush on the angle grinder and saw that he had a very bad day that day. It was tough welding sixteen gauge galvanized vertical ups with a stick welder over gaps up to three eighths of an inch in a couple of places.

 

[forgeblast]

Harv do you notice you have less rust because of the direction you weld, that the way it overlapps the weld lets the water run off instead of pooling.

 

[MikeD74T]

... Another trick is to ALWAYS weld vertical up. It's a better weld and it is easier, really, promise...

A few years ago( about 23) I worked for a guy that specialized in erecting "miscellaneous" steel. We did a lot of bar joist, decking, and miles of stairs with pipe railings. He insisted on uphill with 7018. One of his part time welders had a lot of tank (water, oil, gasoline, etc) erection experience. He taught me how to weld 7018 downhill. Apparently it's commonly done where less penetration is adequate but sealing is absolutely important. Doubt I could do it today.

Gave myself a chuckle today reading this thread. Was reading the posts without noticing who posted & got to 'welding 16 gauge uphill' and started thinking YA Right -only guy that I know of that would do this is Wrou.... oh ya -OK! MikeD74T

 

[Gary Fowler]

There are templets that you can buy at just about any welding supply that have this already laid out. All you do is make sure the top dead center is the same on both ends when you wrap the templet around the pipe. Mark it and cut. It will be perfect. A pipefitters manual will tell you how to lay these out on the pipe (about $40 at welding supplies and book stores) You can make your own templet by just notching one pipe and grinding till you get it perfectly fitted then make a pattern from gasket material. On thin wall piping, it wouldnt take more than 5 minutes with a grinder to make a saddle on and then you can make the pattern from that so they will all be the same. The ends that match up must be perfectly squared so each time you lay it on the pipe the pattern is the same. After you get your super accurate distance measurement between post, cut the pipe to exact length, mark centerline of top dead center on each end. A level can be used for this if you dont have a pipe centerfinder. Just hold the level on top of the pipe and mark where it touches the pipe. Do this in two spots about 10 or more inches apart then scribe a straight line down the center of the pipe. This is where your templet should meet each time. If you make a pattern for each different size that you make, over time you will have a good pattern for all sizes, or just spend the bucks and buy a set already made. You can adjust the top and bottom notch-back in the pipe to compensate for a slanted post but I wouldnt think anyone would have a post that is slanted enough that it would make a lot of difference in a couple of inches.

 

[ecoslik]

Some great advice that I received ... consider ... We switched from tube posts to square posts. 90% of all rails, or more, only required square cuts versus the saddle cuts required for tube posts. Eliminating saddle cuts reduced the "skilled" labor required for fencing so it was possible to save money and have a great learning experience.

Having never welded ... I did some research on how to weld and bought a couple 120 volt Lincoln 140 HD Mig setups using 0.035 flux core. I hired a couple guys who had one 120 volt Lincoln 100 Mig setup using 0.035 flux core. They helped me put in another 1200 feet of 3 rail fencing, 20 gates, and a couple more horse stalls. Neat experience since only one person had welding experience, and we finished the fencing as nice or nicer than the 2500 feet put in previously by a full-time welding crew. Of course, the previous crew(s) could put a weld down like butter but cost much more per manhour. Still, I think our welds are water tight if not as pretty or fast (fast enough).

 

[Gary Fowler]

How is the pricing of square tubing compared to pipe of the same wall thickness?

 

[weldingisfun]

These may help you.
Derivation of Dan Hopper's TUBEFIT Algorithm
SNiP Sawing Notch in Pipe
Tube Coping Calculator
Got them all from the folks at TBN over the years. Thanks everyone.

 

[Gary Fowler]

One thing also to consider is that if your were using a 4" round post, you would have the same amount of metal in a 3" square post so you could reduce the size appropriately strength wise.