Photography experts?

[mathey]

My 13 yo daughter would like to get a nice 35mm film (non-digital) camera setup. I have absolutely no clue about this what-so-ever. Her friend has a Canon Rebel K2 that she's used before and really likes. I don't mind spending money for a good product, and even would consider "gently" used. She wants it to have the ability for auto and manual focusing...I've seen what she can do with a cheapie digital, so i think she has a good eye for it. In this situation, Ebay scares me, so i'm avoiding it right now.

Are there camera/photography forums you'd recommend in the multitudes that seem to be out there?

Online sites for good prices and package deals that aren't infamous for being rip-offs?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[Gatorboy]

My first question would be, why a film camera? I would think a nice Digital SLR (e.g. Canon Digital Rebel) that can shoot manual and auto would be more fun for her. She can shoot test shots and get feedback on them as soon as she downloads them onto the PC. With film, she is going to have to wait for Mom/Dad to run the film to the store, wait for processing, have Mom/Dad run back to the store to pick up the prints.

The digital SLR will cost a lot more than a film SLR, so that may be the main reason. I'm don't think I'd buy my 14 year old daughter a $800+ camera.

But for film, I know alot of beginners, myself included, that learned with a Pentax K-1000 (it's not auto). I'm not sure that's even still manufactured, but you can get a used one on eBay pretty easily. Canon, Minolta, Nikon all make decent film cameras. You want to make sure you can get one that not only focuses manually, but allows you to manually change apeture and shutter speed. She will need this so she can learn about depth-of-field, motion blur, etc.

As far as a good online site for buying cameras, I'd recommend B&H Photo.

 

[_RaT_]

I'd go Canon or Nikon so that if eventually you go digital SLR, you can still use all your lenses. I have a digital Canon, my wife a film. One huge bonus of film is the lack of a "crop" factor on most digital SLR's. This is very important for wide angle. One huge drawback is the inability to have instant results. I have learned more in two weeks of doing flash with my digital then I could have learned in years of using film. If your interested in Minolta, I have a whole bunch of Minolta lenses all the way up to a f4 600mm prime lens.

 

[dmccarty]

Mathey,

In one word NIKON.

My first camera outfit was Cannon. I won't ever buy Cannon again for two reasons. When they started selling autofocus camers they changed the lens mounts so that you had to buy new lenses. Remember the body is cheap compared to the lenses that you buy. So the money I spent on lenses is wasted with new camera bodies. My dad bought one of the first Cannon autofocus cameras. It had a well known problem of running down expensive batteries. By the time he figured this out they would not support the camera anymore. I don't think Cannon stands behind their products like Nikon does.

Nikon on the other hand has not obsoleted their camera mounts. With a few exceptions you can take lenses built decades ago and use them on their latest and greatest camera body. Now that does not mean you can use all of the bells and whistles on the camera body like autofocus but the lense will still work in manual mode.

I would avoid Ebay and most of the mail order photo stores have had issues over the years. I have used B&H but I have had some rough times with them as well. I did have a really good local photo salesman who would meet B&H prices are come very close. See if you can build a relationship with a local store before going to elsewhere. The sales guy I used got laid off which is a real shame since he was so danged good.

Should she get autofocus? I really think if she is serious a simple manual everything camera makes the most sense. It forces you to think about aperature and shutter speed as well as focus and framing. Autofocus is not the end all and for fast actions shots in low light its problematic. Spend money on the lenses not the body. A good macro lense on an inexpensive body mounted to a good tripod provides lots of good photo oppurtunities while teaching fundamentals.

Digital or not digital is a tough choice now a days. The really nice thing about digital for beginners is that they can quickly see the pictures and critique them. Since there is no development or film cost it really makes for a cheap way to learn photography. The problem is that the "good" digital camera's that can mount quality lenses are not in expensive. I have spent hundreds of dollars on film and development just trying to take certain kinds of photos and ended up with nothing of value. With a digital camera it would have cost nothing. Its a tough call.

Try Photo Net for a decent photo website. They have discussion areas on the site. I have not been there in years but they where a good source of info. They are sure to have discussion threads about many of your questions and might have reviews of the equipment you are interested.

One rule of thumb is that if you get one good image on a roll of 36 exposures you are doing well.....

Later,
Dan

 

[mathey]

I grilled her on the digital vs. film thing last night...she wants to go with film...the digital SLR's are out of my range, though i'm sure with time they will become much more affordable...good points however on the "instant results", I can see where digital takes the advantage on that...I do have a photo processing lab here at work, so the time gets cut down a little.

I've been trying to read through this as time allows...pretty informative... Camera FAQ

Also excellent point on the lens switching...since her friend has the Canon, I figured they could trade accessories occasionally.

Also, seems BH Photo has a good rep...

Thanks for the info! all is appreciated...

 

[slowzuki]

Rat are your Minolta lens MD or auto focus? My father and I have a pair of x-700's, x-9, XK, SRT 101,102, 200 and a few other bodies too. I have a digital Sony with manual focus and exposure options that I use exclusively now but I see they offer 35 mm direct to CD developing and scaning for cheap now.

All my big flash's etc are not good on the sony and it don't think it has flash metering from my sometimes crappy fill flash work.

I also was given a Mamiya 645 with motor drive at xmas /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif my uncle is all digital now. I picked up a couple of rolls of 220 film but haven't tried it yet!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'd go Canon or Nikon so that if eventually you go digital SLR, you can still use all your lenses. I have a digital Canon, my wife a film. One huge bonus of film is the lack of a "crop" factor on most digital SLR's. This is very important for wide angle. One huge drawback is the inability to have instant results. I have learned more in two weeks of doing flash with my digital then I could have learned in years of using film. If your interested in Minolta, I have a whole bunch of Minolta lenses all the way up to a f4 600mm prime lens. )</font>

 

[_RaT_]

They are all autofocus. Many zooms etc. The 600mm retails for $8000. All are for sale. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[_RaT_]

<font color="blue">In one word NIKON. </font>


Well Dan we could have a few discussions about that but I really do not want to go there. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Let's just say our experiences differ. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Gatorboy]

<font color="blue"> In one word NIKON. </font>

Canon / Nikon battles are just as intense as Blue/Orange/Green battles. All I know is that Nikon is trying like heck to "catch up" to Canon in the digital world.

 

[Jimbrown]

Well I am not an expert but my wife is and has enough camera equipment to buy me a new Ford F450 Diesel. Most of it is Cannon and I use it sometimes. All of the old stuff read that film has been in the closet for a over a year the only thing we use any more is the Cannon EOS digital Rebel. It is a $1000 or so list. I am sorry but it is worth it. We shoot 10 or 20 pic of every shot we want, cull the good and bad, massage it with one of the computer programs and get really good pictures. To do this with film would be simply be to expensive. The film will cost more than the digital camera very quickely. I know you and your daughter are looking at the up front cost but that is very misleading in the world of cameras. Plus almost all of the good digitals come with very good software to manage the pictures. I guarantee you she will regret not buying digital. Just get a good one that will except interchangable lenses. We have a 18-55 (stock lens) and a 55-200 zoom. The Zoom might be out of range and have to be a present somewhere down the line. I am sorry but the present camera world is digital. I suspect she may be taking lessons perhaps at school or somewhere and the instructor is just not knowledgeable of digital.

 

[_RaT_]

<font color="blue"> Canon / Nikon battles are just as intense as Blue/Orange/Green battles. </font>

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
So silly but so true. I take it you have been to DPReview. It's crazy. There are things that work very well on each brand and by no means does that not include the plethora of other brands out there besides Nikon and Canon. I would say JD vs Kubota, synthetic vs dino oil or hydro vs gears does not even come close to the insane discussion over at DPReview and folks loyalty to their camera brands. I have yet to participate in those discussions.

 

[RobertN]

Gatorboy made a good point; my first camera was a Pentax K1000. It was full manual. It was a sturdy camera that served me well for years. It could do anything the others could do... Funny you mention she is 13; I got mine when I got in to 8th grade, for use in a junior high photo class. I took a lot of good pictures with that camera.

In fact, I am glad I used that camera first. I got a good understanding of all the camera functions; most of that auto stuff aint too hard to do manually. In fact, I often shoot my Nikon F100, a semi-pro camera with the bells and whistles, auto focus ect, in manual mode...

I will offer this bit of advice. Get good glass. You can have a fancy camera body, with mediocre lens, and only get a mediocre image. You can have a mediocre camera body, with a good lense, and get great images. This is true with cameras, binoculars, spotting scopes, rifle scopes, you name it. You just can't beat good glass.

 

[Marine1]

mathey,
I have used the Pentax K1000 and it was an o.k. camera. Very basic in it's nature. I have also used the Canon AE-1. Excellent camera with Auto capabilities and would accept filters very well. Very easy to use and I very rarely used the auto. The two cameras mentioned however are quite old and are probably hard to find in good enough condition to be useful for very long. I have upgraded to a Nikon N90s with an SB28 Nikon Flash. Best camera setup I have ever owned. This camera is almost professional grade by Nikon standards but I couldn't tell the difference. The camera is a bit complicated to use but with some practice and time it is not a problem. Two features I like is the integrated auto winder and the film advance mode. You can take a single frame shot, you can take slow continuous shooting, or you can take fast continuous shooting for action sequence shooting. There are many other features that are just to many to mention. Extra lenses are available for this model also.
I like to use Adorama on the web or if you have a Wolf Camera in your area they are a good source also. Wolf probably has a web site I'm sure, but I just go to the Brick and Mortar store.
My cousin and Father in law are Pros, and they also favor the Nikon line. They were very impressed with my camera as well. That made me feel very good about it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Good luck and good hunting.

 

[California]

If she is taking a photography class she should listen to the instructor. I wouldn't be surprised if instructors still recommend Pentax K1000 as a starter film camera - they are that good.

I just looked on Ebay and saw dozens of them sold in the $60 to $80 range. You could resell one of those at minimal loss when she learns that digital is better. One tip - the f1.7 lens is noticeably sharper than the 1.4, and the f2 is sharper than either.

On Ebay the Canon Rebel K2 kits start under $275 so there is nothing wrong with getting her exactly what she wants if that cost is not unreasonable for you.

I'll bet she soon starts requesting that her print orders include a CD returned with each set so she can share her photos by email. At that point you may as well have bought a digital camera.

Has she considered how easy it is to carry a smaller digital camera? She would be more likely to get the perfect picture simply because she is more likely to have the camera with her.

Attached - image from a 3 megapixel Canon A75, reduced to 100k as required for posting here. How come these camera threads never include sample pictures? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Richard]

Having glossed over most of the comments and risking repeating something already said... I'd get her a shutter or aperature priority camera (my preference is aperature) and not a fully automatic camera. Base logic being, it will force her to understand the base mechanics of how it works (depth of field/aperature/shutterspeed) and then she can move into the more automatic cameras.

Good luck!

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I have a Canon ELAN2e that I'd sell if your interested. I made the switch to DSLR about a 18 months ago and I have not touched my film camera since. I have a 28-200 lens to go with it. Shoot me a PM if you are interested.

 

[Hakim]

I agree with those who advise purchase of a digital camera. If you cannot afford a digital camera, you DEFINITELY cannot afford the "hobby" of film and print photography. I have been a professional photographer since I was admitted as the youngest member of Professional Photographers of America at age 16. I have owned Leica's, Nikons', and Hasselblad's (you do not want to know what they cost...)

Let me suggest you look into a Olympus C-4000 Digital Camera. You can buy them right now on E-Bay for under $200. They are a 4 megapixel camera, with zoom lens. It is just about ideal for a beginner. She will take fabulous pictures, and you will have little cost after purchase besides "photo paper" which is now available quite reasonably priced.

When she is ready to "graduate" then look at the Nikon's. They are just very hard to beat. Yes, it will cost around $1,500 for whatever is the then-current model.

By the way, we here at TBN used a Olympus Camedia for several years (and just replaced it a few months ago with a Nikon). We took thousands of product shots, portraits and many other shots, all of which met and exceeded the standards of professional photography.

Today is the world of digital photography, and that is that. Other than as a quaint pastime, there is no purpose for your daughter to take courses in "wet" photography. Instead, use the money to get a "student" version of Photoshop (if you don't want to spring for Photoshop, then get Paintshop Pro, which has most of the same features.).

Within 12 months of using the digital camera, and becoming expert at the features of Photoshop, your daughter will have real world skills that will not only be enjoyable, but earn top dollar in today's employee marketplace.

Go to Ebay and search for “Olympus C-4000 Digital camera.” Right now there are about 20 of these for sale, some direct from Olympus with full warranty. I don’t see how you can go wrong with this unit.

The best site for reviews of every digital camera, very well done site is Digital Photography Review

Hope this helps.

 

[dmccarty]

_Rat_,

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Well Dan we could have a few discussions about that but I really do not want to go there. Let's just say our experiences differ. )</font>

LOL! I know what you are saying Nikon vs Cannon its a bigger war than the tractor color wars and usually a heck of a lot less friendly. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I knew when I wrote that line I would be stirring the pot. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Later,
Dan

 

[Gatorboy]

FYI: Canon does not contain three (3) N's.

 

[_RaT_]

Well Dan since I have a Nikon as well as a Canon, a Olympus, a Minolta and maybe something else laying around, I have to be careful what I bash, well, with the the possible exception of my photographs lately. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I have gone pretty much digital.

Hakim, while I have Photoshop 7 and Photoshop Elements to do the digital work, I find Elements is more then enough to satisfy my needs. It cost's about $50 maybe a little more now that it includes Album as well.