PhD (Please Doctors look here)

saw_dust · Jan 11, 2003

Masters degrees anything ,related to higher education ...lets hear it.....

Since this forum has a such wide array of talent here.I personally am impressed with people who have worked at and suceeded with educating themselves and at the same token kept there feet on the ground.Would you mind telling us what your doctorate is in and why you chose to pursue the doctorate you have....any regrets etc....
I find Cowboys doc's path impressive...he chose to be a doctor and still has ranchwork in his blood,which is great,tells me he has not forgotten where he came from.I thought it would be interesting to hear everyone stories.

rancar · Jan 11, 2003

I don't have a PhD....but I do have a Masters in Urban Planning. If this is good enough, I'll briefly tell a bit about my story.

I pursued this degree because I grew up in New York City and the suburbs of New Jersey. I'd seen much too much urban gentrification and suburban sprawl and a lot of land development that I thought just wasn't being done right. It interested me enough go to graduate school to learn more on these issues. It was a satisfying two years of graduate study and I fortunately was able to find employment in the field after college.

I've now worked in this field for over 20 years, primarily in the area of transportation planning and engineering. I've concluded that the idea of planning WAS a good thing but it happened in the days of Robert Moses, Frederick Law Olmstead, and Frank Lloyd Wright...that is, 50-75 years ago. Urban planning these days has already occurred in the cities and suburbs....any future planning that takes place is done primarily by the real estate industry in conjunction with politicians that view localized needs for greater land development to enhance economic development and the tax base. Planners and especially transportation planning is done ONLY IN RESPONSE to land development that has or is already taking place. That is, building more roads, road reconstruction, adding additional capacity, increasing road safety, and the like. But, all this takes place not as planning but as a response to land development actions instigated and started by others. It's been a bit disillusioning since I realize I can't effect something that others could benefit from in the future.

So, I now live in the rural country, own 158 acres of what was a former dairy farm, and I'm doing my own rural planning where I know I can produce results and observe its benefits. Since 1984, I've renovated a 175 year old Greek Revival farmhouse that was not too far from the wrecking ball. I've reclaimed land that was growing over in sapling due to neglect. I'm now removing hedgerows that are 50 years old or more, and removing and relocating old stone walls in order to make the land as productive as I can just like it was 100 years ago. I've chased loggers away from my place who come by every year and want to log about 60 acres of woods that I have. (I should really say these loggers would 'rape' the land since they would take every marketable tree over 9 inches in diameter and leave me with only shrub and saplings.) I've instead decided to leave my woodlot uncut except for windblown trees that I cut personally for firewood. The woodlot will now stay as long as I own the place, and I'll leave it to future generations for them to enjoy. My intention and dream now is to retain in full the farm as I see numerous other farms around me being parceled for helter skelter rural development as disillusioned urbanites migrate to the country to find their own dreams. This, I don't begrudge them; only the WAY it is being done.

So, in short, my idealistic dreams of trying to carve a professional niche for myself in molding a better urban lifestyle for the current generation has been somewhat sidetracked by my personal endeavors to preserve and improve farmland that's rapidly being purchased and parceled for helter skelter rural development. And this, my friends, is where I'm finding some joy in this life and I hope a measure of satisfaction for the future generation that will one day own my place.

Thank you for the opportunity to contribute.

Regards,
Bob Ancar
Cambridge, NY

Boondox · Jan 11, 2003

I got my doc in behavioral epidemiology and did research in the behavioral risk factors associated with the spread of HIV in the divorced population. Fascinating stuff, human behavior, but that particular target group turned out to be at relatively low risk, especially in the male population. I guess that led to a general dissatisfaction with the direction my talents were going. Teaching at the university level was frustrating as so many of the students were more interested in partying (now THAT would have been a population worth studying!) and San Diego had grown into this huge, impersonal mob of humanity. I never cared much for crowds.

So when I married a wonderful Vermonter, and she had trouble adapting to life in the Big City, my love for her was far stronger than my bond to the city or the university and I moved back to the Green Mountains of northern Vermont. Not much interest in my specialty back here -- low divorce rate and less than 100 HIV+ people in the state -- so my life took an unexpected and delightfully fulfilling turn. Never imagined I'd find this much happiness in life!

Pete

TWINKLE_TOES · Jan 11, 2003

This post by one of my favorite and most enertaining people on this board doesn't fit in the PHD column, but does fit the wide array of talent here

Haven't heard from Glenn lately, hope he didn't go down with the HMS Glennmac.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=off&Number=105926&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=legal%20operating%20system&Match=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=50&Old=allposts&Main=104457>Glenn</A>

BigDave · Jan 11, 2003

Wow, trying to get Ph.D./M.D. types to talk about themselves, Muhammad will need to double his hard-drive size. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I already post my job history: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=off&Number=222879&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all> Dependencies </A>

I earned a Ph.D. from the University of Tennessee Space Institute in Engineering Science & Mechanics. My major field was Computational Fluid Dynamics, so I'm no stranger to a computer. As a graduate research assistant I was sponsored via an Army contract for all six years of my graduate education to study methods to improve the simulation of blade-tip vortices for helicopter rotor flow. The work was so successful, at one point they were considering making it classified. Although I was ready to graduate after 4 years, the indentured servant part of grad school forced me to stay for 6 years. So to make the most of my time I continued to take courses. I took over 100 credit hours of graduate courses in addition to the usual dissertation & seminar hours. I've taken graduate courses in Aerospace Engineering, Chemical Engineering, Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, Engineering Science & Mechanics, Mathematics, Mechanical Engineering, and Physics. I also took Accounting and Business Management graduate courses after I graduated. Now here's the odd part, I don't consider myself an academic. I'd rather mow the lawn versus go to a museum. I'd rather watch the Simspons vs. read a book. I'd rather build a patio vs pay someone to do it for me. I'd rather go to a ball game vs. attend a concert.

You asked why did I become a doctor? Long story or short? Hmmm. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Well, instead of gong to college, I joined the Navy to be a part of their Nuclear Power Program. You get two years of free education, and you have a usable skill when return to the civilian world. I did well in Nuclear school, and was told many times that I should have went to college. The Navy has a strong caste system, more so than the other services. An enlisted man wasn't thought smart enough to have an original thought. I found this very frustrating. If you were an officer, you had a title for which people automatically gave you respect and listened to what you had to say. So. I looked at the civilian world, and realized that if I became doctor, I wouldn't be subjogated. Thus, my 9 year academic journey began at the age of 23 years old. Funny thing, now that I'm a doc, I don't care if people know of not. This is not true for most docs. We held a family picnic at our home this summer and invited friends and neighbors. My next door neighbor came to me during the party and mentioned that I should be very proud of my sister-in-law (whom she just met) with the Ph.D. I grinned and said we are very proud of her accomplishments. My neighbor still doesn't know I have a Ph.D. As a matter of fact, most people I know socially, don't know I have a Ph.D. According to my wife, most people think I'm a tad slow when they first meet me. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Anonymous Poster · Jan 11, 2003

"The Navy has a strong caste system, more so than the other services. "
Obviously you must mean Chiefs Rule & Officers drool.
Master Chiefs are 1 step from GOD
Sr Chiefs are 2 steps from GOD
and so on.
Any officer who don't understand that can have a nice swim back.

Boondox · Jan 11, 2003

the indentured servant part of grad school

Dave -- You mean it wasn't just MY grad program...that other grad students have experienced slavery!?! /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I think the profs in graduate programs sense students' passion about a subject and take shameless advantage of it! Of course, that passion can open a lot of doors!

Pete -- I be a colidge grajuit

bher · Jan 11, 2003

I was in a chemical physics PhD program at Johns Hopkins University five years ago. I left after about 2 years with a masters degree. I got in with a terrible and dishonest research advisor. Your research advisor is your god. They control your life and your future. Graduate students are probably the most oppressed group in the entire country. The general population does not, and never will understand. The politics at Hopkins were truly oppressive. The sad part is that I really loved science. That love of science is only now starting to return.

saw_dust · Jan 11, 2003

I grinned and said we are very proud of her accomplishments. My neighbor still doesn't know I have a Ph.D. As a matter of fact, most people I know socially, don't know I have a Ph.D. According to my wife, most people think I'm a tad slow when they first meet me.

Big Dave (The Modest Doctor)..........kinda has a ring to it..../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

BigDave · Jan 11, 2003

Big Dave (The Modest Doctor) 

/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

How about as my wife would put it:

Big Dave (No, he's not really retarded) /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

I have a tendancy to speak slow and to deliberate my options before I speak. I'm never in a rush outside work. This just frustrates the heck out my wife. Here's an example: A grocery clerk asks me paper or plastic. I look over at the bags to determine the relative quality of each type of bag. I look at the clerk and try to infer from his or her dress and appearance if they would be offended by a non-enviromentally sound decision. I then start to visualize the pile of bags we have at the house to determine our stock of each type. I also think about amount of groceries that I would need to carry to the car. Plastic if I could carry it all, paper if I need to use the cart. So after weighing all of my options, I realize my wife has already pushed the clerk aside and has two bags full already. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif I've always been fascinated by the field of decision science in my work environment, unfortunately I've incorporated it into my everyday life.

So let's compromise and go with just Big Dave...and maybe someday, if this diet thing ever works, just Dave. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Phred · Jan 12, 2003

SawDust,

I have a doctorate in electrical engineering and can still find where I parked my tractor....

The issue is sometimes you find an area that really is interesting and what you learn with a BS just scratches the surface.
An MS and or a PHD offers a more complete study.

The MS in most fields is a two year project and you do some hands on research and write a thesis (50-100 page book).

Phd is about 5 and you must do something novel in most fields and write a dissertation (significant text). Most schools also require a qualifying exam that is basically a writen test over your entire field ( not a lot of fun since it takes several days).

For me I always wanted to understand more about the field and therefore just keeped on going. In the end you find that the learning process is never ending but the advanced degrees teach you how to learn and solve problems.

No regrets on my part although it is a huge amount of work with a large number of hurdles to jump through.

If money is the goal you can make more in business. If job satisfaction and a comfortable living is the goal and you love a particluar field, the Ph.D. is the way IMHO.

Fred

Phred · Jan 12, 2003

Dave and Pete,

the indentured servant part of grad school

Yes that sure is part of it, and sometimes some professors take it to an extreme. And like you said the major professor has alot of power and the graduate student has less than zero.

But in the end don't you think the expereince and all that hard work payed off?
In contrast just about any other job you have after that is like heaven in comparison to graduate school.

Fred

Boondox · Jan 12, 2003

But in the end don't you think the expereince and all that hard work payed off?

Absolutely! There are all sorts of gems that go to those with the passion and perseverence to put up with the endless hours. For me -- since I'm no longer working in my field -- I'd say the greatest gift of that experience was the critical thinking skills you get from it. Sounds like Dave was in the right place at the right time, studying the right stuff, to have a fascinating career! But my bet is he'll agree with me wholeheartedly about the critical thinking part.

To add to the bit you said about the differences between undergrad and grad programs...to my way of thinking an undergraduate degree gives you a key to a better life, and your choice of graduate programs is based on your life passion. It's not just the key to your future employment opportunities; it's your way of saying "This is where I want to make a difference." (Corollary for business types: "This is what I want to do with my professional life.") It's a gamble in some fields. Mine is a good example. I entered grad school in the early 80s when AIDS was really taking off. There was some evidence that it would be the next great plague, and I wanted to be in the vanguard to head off that crisis. But as my research and that of others showed, HIV/AIDS was spread by a constellation of behaviors that were not that widespread in the hetero population of Western cultures. (Cultural metacontingencies are vastly different in other places -- like SE Asia and sub-Saharan Africa -- which is why AIDS is such a huge problem there.) And with those findings the public health study of HIV/AIDS became hugely political, which is a game I don't play. So my gamble didn't pay off. That's not to say my doc was a waste, though. Far from it.

And yet there are times, when I'm standing in the engine compartment of my 57 Dodge pickup trying to keep that old flathead six running, that I wish my education had included voc auto! /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif Keeping things running, keeping crops and livestock healthy -- that's an entirely different sort of satisfaction.

Pete

MikePA · Jan 12, 2003

I'd say the greatest gift of that experience was the critical thinking skills you get from it.
I'd say this is the best, and most long lasting, benefit of almost all college degree programs. Long after the specifics might be forgotten, how to think is still with you.

saw_dust · Jan 12, 2003

deliberate my options before I speak

Engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear

Trev · Jan 12, 2003

I've really got to hand it to the M.D. folks. A buddy of mine called me one day.. he was doing either his internship or his residency, I forget which, but he said he hadn't slept in 72 hours, was starting to hallucinate, and had just messed up a patient's medications. How do they expect people to put on the correct socks, let alone diagnose medical proglems, when they are under such sleep-deprivation conditions?? Seems so weird to me.

Well, he's a successful brain surgeon now.. so I guess it paid off.

JATO_RaT · Jan 12, 2003

Bob, I found your response most interesting. One question that I have often wanted to ask but never did is regarding logging. I never really thought about it until I read various posts at TBN over the years. You mention logging of trees. I did not really think that they logged in the East but obviously they do. What type of trees do they log and what is it used for? I have built a home in Maine and most of the lumber came from the South and the Douglas Fir came from CA, OR or WA. While the logs they cut out here are getting smaller for sure, I have never seen much of anything smaller then about 16" and typically 24" or larger are seen. As a child, the logging trucks usually carried about 2 to 3 logs, today I count as many as 15. The great thing is that while the smaller trees make for much less stable lumber, the advances in the lumber industry to "straighten" this out has been wonderful. I for one don't mind using engineered lumber especially when it means keeping the massive trees alive for us to see. If you have never seen the massive redwoods in CA, you should do it. The redwoods in the Northern portion of the state are very impressive because of their girth and height, the Redwoods near Yosemite are impressive because of their incredible girth, Rat...

rancar · Jan 12, 2003

Hi Mark....

You mention logging of trees. I did not really think that they logged in the East but obviously they do. What type of trees do they log and what is it used for?

Loggers look primarily for eastern white oaks, maples, and black cherry (this is highly valued). The value and demand for each will fluctuate depending upon market prices and supply conditions. Logs can either be saw or veneer (most prized) and used for lumber, furniture manufacturing, specialized wood products. Many of these logs are shipped to overseas markets, such as Europe and Japan where oaks, maples, and cherry are in high demand.

Loggers try to economize by taking as much as they can. One logger who came to my place liked to cut this smaller stuff for the firewood market....said he had to maximize use of his equipment, make payroll, etc. by cutting as much as he could. I quickly showed him the exit off the property.

As a child, the logging trucks usually carried about 2 to 3 logs, today I count as many as 15.

Here, the trucks I see truck the logs on tandem trailers....usually 15-20 per flatbed.

If you have never seen the massive redwoods in CA, you should do it. The redwoods in the Northern portion of the state are very impressive because of their girth and height, the Redwoods near Yosemite are impressive because of their incredible girth,...

Yep...I've been there. I was a forestry student at Utah State Univ in the 1970s. Am always impressed with the western forests which are primary coniferous vis-a-vis hardwoods in the eastern states. Doug fir is one of my favorites and the primary timber tree in the west.

Bob

JATO_RaT · Jan 12, 2003

Thanks Bob, I always wondered about our hardwoods and their sources. I was told at a hardwood specialty outlet that much of our red oak came from the Tennensse area. When in Maine, it seemed much of the trees were Birch as I recall. Thanks for the update. Rat...

Chuck52 · Jan 12, 2003

Saw Dust,

I'm still trying to figure out a way to describe how I ended up with a PhD in Biochemistry that suggests I planned it all along. I'm jealous of some of the guys who seem to have had a plan for their lives as soon as they graduated high school.

Chuck