Painting Help...

[khd]

I am near the point of painting a small hay wagon and log splitter that I am building. Wen't to the dealer and picked up a quart can of Kub orange and dk. grey.

Since I've never worked with this kind of paint before I need a little help as I don't want to mess up one: all my hard work on the wagon/spltter and two: the paint cost $30.00 a quart. Hoping someone can tell me:

1. What do I use to thin it and in what ratio? It's acrylic enamel.
2. Looking at two different spray guns: (Don't have a large enough compressor to give alot of CFM) suction sprayer with 1 qt. can or a detail HVLP with 4.2 oz gravity fed cup that only uses 2.5 CFM. I'm thinking the detail would take longer but would be less apt to waste paint as there are no large panels to do but alot of nooks and crannies.
3. Will rattle can enamel primer in the rustoleum style be okay?

I'm not painting a show car but I am looking for a well applied paint job that will look good and last. I also want to do this myself as the wagon and splitter have been 100% self fabrication and I want to continue that.

Any help or suggestions would be appriciated.

Kevin

 

[SPIKER]

KHD:

first off start with the metal:

it must be CLEAN and free from OIL, wipe it down with some inexpesivve zylene or paint thinner. (mineral spirits will leave a residue so stay away from them.) THEN you need to treat the bare metal with some sort of metal conditioner (Metal Perp acid0 generally a Phosphate (iron phosphate) which follow directions, cost more$ but can be best thing to keep the paint sticking otherwise every scratch will rust fast and the paint can peel right off.

you should be able to buy thinner for the paint where you bought the paint, otherwise look for the lable and read what to thin with, usually enamel reducer and you can get a good hardner to go with it, but if you do you HAVE toi use a resperator for 100% sure cause the catalyst (hardner) is deadly.

Stay away form that cheap rattle can primer, worthless and you will have to sand the primer prior to the top coat paint. they make primer/surfacer which have metal etching in them and can be over coated while they are still tacky with out sanding but theya rea more expensive than that $30/qt paint!

as for guns, the HVLP with small compresssor will probably be best bet and waste less paint too.

well I got ot fly

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Prefect]

You got some good advice there from Spiker. The most important thing you can do, IMO, is the metal prep. You don't have to go crazy with it, but you want to make sure the metal is clean and free of all residue from oil (including but not limited to that of your body), grease, etc. Also, an etching primer is a very good investment for a paint job.

I do custom paint on motorcycles (Harleys and the like) on the side, so I really notice paint jobs. I can't tell you how many beautiful paint jobs I have seen on other bikes that OP'd, wrinkled, popped, ect. from the painter not taking care in the initial steps and prepping the metal thoroughly first.

Again, I agree with Spiker, the HVLP is going to be your best bet. The suction gun will require more air and they waste quite a bit more paint. The HVLP guns are considerably more efficient. You can pick up an inexpensive HVLP gun from Harbor Freight for around $40, or a HVLP detailer for around the same price. I have actually used one of the $60 HVLP Harbor frieght guns and if you are careful about your gun setup, it can shoot about as good as some $300+ guns I have.

Hope this helps. Good Luck!

 

[Junkman]

Both previous posters have given good advise. To continue with the advise, make sure that you have a drier / filter on the air line, and don't spray when the humidity is high or on windy days if outside. Mix only the amount of paint that you think that you will need and get a paint screen funnel from the paint store to strain the paint through. Mix according to the label directions. There is a product called "fish eye" remover that will also help an inexperienced painter avoid problems. Possibly there is a local body shop that will allow you to hang around for a day so you can observe technique. Most people in the body business are people persons, and won't mind your asking questions, especially when you tell them what you are doing. Painting isn't difficult, but it does require cleanliness for a good end result.

 

[mbrule]

I agree with all advice so far, except:
Just to Clarify: I am not sure you are correct in saying that a pressure gun uses more air than an HVLP. I restore antique cars on the side, and use both types reqularly. HVLP = High Volume Low Pressure... An HVLP will require less pressure, and use paint more efficiently, but, requires Higher airflow (CFM) albeit at a lower pressure.

I also agree clean clean clean.

DON"T PAINT, CLEAN, OR ANYHTING WITHOUT A RESPIRATOR!!!!!!!

My experience is that it is easier to paint with a pressure gun, but a great finish can be obtained with either type.

Beyond the air dryer/filter that you should have, I would also use a disposable filter (get it at any autobody supply) right at the gun.

Just my 02

Matt

 

[Prefect]

An HVLP ordinarily uses about the same flow as a suck gun, but is more efficient (less wasted paint).

Definately use a respirator. You can pick up a pretty good one with changable filters for $30-$40. Make sure (and this is pretty important) that it is rated for paint and solvents. There was a guy that asked my advise about painting and such. One thing I told him was to get a good respirator. I went over to see how the paint job was coming. He was painting, in his garage, doors shut, no vent fan, using a dust mask. So, make sure the respirator you use is rated for paint and solvents.

Practice on some scrap material. You'll have to get your fan just right. I usually tape some mask paper on the wall to set my spray. The techinque, distance, sweep, speed, etc. will all come with a little practice. I know the paint isn't cheap, but a little practice on a piece of paper on the wall can keep you from having to start over or at minimum redo an area (sand, feather, prime, so on).

You have to post pics when you get it done. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[SPIKER]

hi again:

the HVLP does stand for High Volume Low Pressure, but it does use LESS air than convention suction feed air guns by far less. as a process the HIGH VOLUME refers to the amount of material and the LOW PRESSURE refers to the amounto f air pressure. typical air pressure settigns for syphon feed guns are 40~60 psi, where as HVLP are 10~30 psi. each gun will respond differently as the amount of thinner to paint ratio changes a bit with each cup full mixed. I painted cars (first one at age 14) for almost 10 years, back when IMRON was the THING and very little was known about isocyanates (deadly mix which seals up you're lungs like super glue) I used good standard quality resperators to paint with it, almost died, spent 3 weeks laid up with pneumonia like symptomes & years suffering from broncitus. Every now and again I still do. it effectivly ended my painting career, so I joined the military at 19.

I was in Joint Vocational School for autobody for 2 years, I hung around with the junior instructor when I was a kid, (he built sprint cars) he was one heck of a nice guy, dies a few years back mostly from diabeaties but had worked LEAD into cars since he was a kid, that is a dieing art for sure, (everyone who did/does it dies!) /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif He taught me the art, but I didn't have much patiance back then, learnt it and forgot it pretty much as I never used it... I did end up teaching the painting part to most of the guys in my sinior year, as the instructor was well not much of a painter... by that time I had over 100 cars painted doing from 2 to 6 a week for about a year, and then started getting sick... Painted a big old red & white ford 4 dr dually. that was the end, put down almost 4 gallons of paint, bed was off painted up & under too. for the next month I could hardly breath from the poisoning I got it was an IMRON job. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I still see that old truck, still looks nearly as good as the day it was painted! it belonged to the at then boss's dad./ now I don't know who owns it, he used it running hotfoot jobs after he retired. We put in NEW bed floor, NEW fenders, and painted the frame after sandblasting it, total re-doo that took about 6 weeks. just him and I working on it. actually was pretty fast cosidering it was just the two of us.

I still paint but with more wisdom and less often. you can not even buy imron anymore but you can go to TSC and buy catalyst (Hardner) for enamels which is a sep or two down, still GOOD paint for sure and can still kill ya if you want to paint in a closed garage with out ventelation or proper masks. (activated carbon with particulate masks can be bought as a one time use masks now for 5~10 bucks and worth the investments...)

yes the harbor freight guns work well enough for the price to paint farm equip, or industrial equipment too. wouldn't paint a show car, but my old beater truck or my nice blue dump wagon yep painted with the old 19 buck harbor freight gun!

Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[khd]

Thanks for all the help. Here's my next problem. The only thing on the can is clean up with paint thinner. The directions only speak to apply several light coats 10 minutes apart dry to touch in 30 min....dry in 24 hrs nothing about its thinner or ratios.

I'm thinking that it is possibly premixed (contains mineral spirits, toluene, xylene and naptha) so I'm going to try it out of the can on a test first and if I need to thin it I will. See what I get when I go for color match (Kubota in a can) over ease of use.

After I save my pennies for all the things that I now have to buy...etching primer, hardner.....at least I already have a vapor respirator...I'll start painting.

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[khd]

Oh....and I think I am going with the HF detail HVLP gun as its CFM falls within my compressor's air volume and if nothing else it will help stop me from painting the inside of the garage if to only take a little longer than a full size gun that I can't give enough air to.

Kevin

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Your vendor should be able to tell you what "reducer" you need depending upon the temperature when you're painting.

I've got an hlvp but it's the kind that doesn't need a compressor. They show it painting cars but from my experience it wouldn't do the kind of job aerosol does.

I'd go to a auto paint supply store with your can of paint. They can give you the right reducer (thinner) and tell you how to thin it.

Painting cars can be fun. Tractors too.