Ordering materials by volume

[RayCo]

Perhaps someone can explain this to me, since it has happened many, many times, and I cannot figure out why. I sometimes need to order various materials such as sand, screenings, mulch, wood chips, 2a stone, etc. Some of these things are often sold by volume where as others are sold by weight. My issue is with things that are sold by weight. For instances:

I have a 100' x 1' trench that I need to put 6" of screenings in, so about 2 cubic yards. I call the place and I ask, "what is the volume of one ton of screenings?" The answer isn't, "Oh, one ton's about .85 cubic yards." The answer is, "Uh, um, I don't know..."

I have a 10' x 10' pad that I'm building for a gazebo, and I need to put down 1" of sand below the pavers, or 8-9 cubic feet. But again, sand is sold by weight. As a consumer, I know the volume. I don't care what it weighs.

I understand why the places that sell it care about the weight, but for the consumer interface, things should be converted to the units the consumer would use.

Yes, I can look up tons/yard^3 for materials and get the answers myself, but just going to the Internet for this yields 20 different answers.

This is more of just a rant, but again, not in how things are sold, but more that when I ask, "What is the volume of one ton of screenings," the response I get gives me the impression that I'm the first person to have ever asked the question.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Where I live:
Most places selling mulch, top soil, etc. don't have scales to sell by weight, so it gets sold by volume, they use a yd bucket on a loader.
most places selling bulk sand, gravel, etc. have scales, and sell by weight, which is probably more accurate, and easier for them. Unfortunately wet sand / gravel weighs more than dry sand / gravel.

 

[JDGreenGrass]

I have been confused by this recently as well.

Frankly, the weight thing doesn't make sense to me, IMO.

Is there a formula to convert weight to yards....or vice versa.??

And, who can explain to me WHY this has changed from yards to weight.???? Kinda like going metric.

 

[wvpolekat]

Easy. By yards the price is fixed. By weight, they can make more money depending on moisture content and such.

 

[ToadHill]

I don't know if this is any help, but when I did landscaping we used the following rule of thumb for mulch and I think it would work for other things as well.

1 yard of mulch 3" thick will cover 100 sq ft.

 

[RayCo]

I don't know if this is any help, but when I did landscaping we used the following rule of thumb for mulch and I think it would work for other things as well.

1 yard of mulch 3" thick will cover 100 sq ft.

Yes, one cubic yard of anything, be it mulch, sand, water, nitrogen molecules, human hair, or dead chipmunks, will cover the same area at the same height. This is exactly why selling the material by the weight gets my goat.

One cubic yard of sand weighs much much much much more than a cubic yard of chipmunks, so without knowing the density of a given material, trying to determine how many tons will give you the volume you need is impossible.

 

[BobRip]

I agree with your issue. I have a feeling it is a legal issue. The scales can be certified and they can have a legal defense should there be any questions. It is also easy to weight things if you have a scale. Measuring by volume has a lot more variability. Settling can change the volume. If you measure it immediately after loading and then check it after you have driven to the sight, you will probably see it has settled. Then the customer will complain.

 

[RayCo]

I agree with your issue. I have a feeling it is a legal issue. The scales can be certified and they can have a legal defense should there be any questions. It is also easy to weight things if you have a scale. Measuring by volume has a lot more variability. Settling can change the volume. If you measure it immediately after loading and then check it after you have driven to the sight, you will probably see it has settled. Then the customer will complain.

That certainly could be the case, although one could make a stink about having a ton of material delivered to a different elevation above sea level and not getting a ton up there. They should sell by mass.

I mostly just can't understand why when I ask about the density of a material sold by weight, the response I get is that "you're the first person who ever asked this, so I have not idea" thing.

 

[Bird]

I mostly just can't understand why when I ask about the density of a material sold by weight, the response I get is that "you're the first person who ever asked this, so I have not idea" thing.

In my opinion, you get that answer for a very simple reason. If they just give the customer a number, and for any reason, moisture content, settling, or whatever, the customer finds that number to be off in any amount, even very small amounts, the customer is likely to accuse them of fraud, cheating, etc. So they save themselves a lot of headaches by saying they don't know.

 

[Duffster]

Weight of quarry products doesn't vary that much with moisture. When the product is in the pile it takes on vary little moisture, rain tends to run off and it dries vary little in the pile.

Weight is a legal measure volume is not.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Weight of quarry products doesn't vary that much with moisture. When the product is in the pile it takes on vary little moisture, rain tends to run off and it dries vary little in the pile.

Very true...In my dealings typically the "moisture sensitive" items like Mulch, Loam, etc.. are sold by the yard, even Bank Run Gravel is more often then not by the yard (although it depends on who you get it from, i've seen bank run both ways). Pretty much anything that goes thru a screen is by the ton.

Weight is a legal measure volume is not.

I dunno about that, pretty sure the only caveat is that it is what you say it is....as long as you give what your saying it is, you're good. Arent industrial gases are sold by volume (cubic feet)??

 

[wvpolekat]

Milk is sold by volume, as are most other liquids. Any measurement is a "legal" one as long as it is defined. It can be gallons or kilderkins. As long as everyone knows how much volume that is and agrees.

 

[Duffster]

Milk is sold by volume, as are most other liquids. Any measurement is a "legal" one as long as it is defined. It can be gallons or kilderkins. As long as everyone knows how much volume that is and agrees.

And I bet that volume is found by weight.

Milk on the farm is sold by weight figured from volume. :laughing:

 

[tlbuser]

Perhaps someone can explain this to me, since it has happened many, many times, and I cannot figure out why. I sometimes need to order various materials such as sand, screenings, mulch, wood chips, 2a stone, etc. Some of these things are often sold by volume where as others are sold by weight. My issue is with things that are sold by weight. For instances:

I have a 100' x 1' trench that I need to put 6" of screenings in, so about 2 cubic yards. I call the place and I ask, "what is the volume of one ton of screenings?" The answer isn't, "Oh, one ton's about .85 cubic yards." The answer is, "Uh, um, I don't know..."

I have a 10' x 10' pad that I'm building for a gazebo, and I need to put down 1" of sand below the pavers, or 8-9 cubic feet. But again, sand is sold by weight. As a consumer, I know the volume. I don't care what it weighs.

I understand why the places that sell it care about the weight, but for the consumer interface, things should be converted to the units the consumer would use.

Yes, I can look up tons/yard^3 for materials and get the answers myself, but just going to the Internet for this yields 20 different answers.

This is more of just a rant, but again, not in how things are sold, but more that when I ask, "What is the volume of one ton of screenings," the response I get gives me the impression that I'm the first person to have ever asked the question.

Sand runs ~ 2200 -2500 lbs/cu.yd.
gravel runs ~ 2600-3200 lbs/cu.yd.
both dependent on type and size. (3/4 minus is ~ 2800)

It's easy to overload a truck by volume, not so easy by the scales. Who wants to be the owner who gets the overweight tickets? The pits are scaled towards the more frequent users, i.e. construction trades.

Concrete is always by the yard. A typical tandem/tri-axle runs 9 yards without getting into weight issues.

Mulch, leafgro, etc. is geared more towards the homeowner. Cubic yardage is easy to estimate based on bucket size. Who counts how many scoops the person at the nursery is loading? How many people can tell at glance the yardage per bucket?

Last time I went to get mulch, I paid for 4 yards. The loader operator put in 2 scoops, I asked for the rest of my load. He said, nope, this machine has a 2 yard bucket (John Deere 310). When I got done laughing, I again asked for the other 2.

 

[JDGreenGrass]

Sand runs ~ 2200 -2500 lbs/cu.yd.
gravel runs ~ 2600-3200 lbs/cu.yd.
both dependent on type and size. (3/4 minus is ~ 2800)

It's easy to overload a truck by volume, not so easy by the scales. Who wants to be the owner who gets the overweight tickets? The pits are scaled towards the more frequent users, i.e. construction trades.

Concrete is always by the yard. A typical tandem/tri-axle runs 9 yards without getting into weight issues.

Mulch, leafgro, etc. is geared more towards the homeowner. Cubic yardage is easy to estimate based on bucket size. Who counts how many scoops the person at the nursery is loading? How many people can tell at glance the yardage per bucket?

Last time I went to get mulch, I paid for 4 yards. The loader operator put in 2 scoops, I asked for the rest of my load. He said, nope, this machine has a 2 yard bucket (John Deere 310). When I got done laughing, I again asked for the other 2.

Well, did you get your other 2 yards.??

 

[tlbuser]

Yes, after a little heated debate and having to wait for the owner to show up.

 

[tlbuser]

The pits are scaled towards the more frequent users, i.e. construction trades.

I should clarify this. At least on our jobs, we use "standards for conversion". One ton of building sand is 0.75 yards. One ton of gravel is 0.75 yards.

Unfortunately, most companies worry about their large volume customers and could give two hoots about their little ones. Customer service appears to be getting farther away from larger companies, profits first - perks second- shareholders third - everything else will just take care of itself People wonder why, but they seem to be the same ones asking why the self service cash registers aren't working properly.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I had 4 yds of compost delivered this spring, the pile seemed a lot smaller than the 4 yds of mulch I just got this week.
also notice when you get mulch, they will "fluff" it first, then load you.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Some places definitely try to confuse the customer by selling by weight rather than volume. I recently priced some stone from a different supplier just to see if my regular guy was being fair (he sells by the cubic yard) and the new guy quoted by the ton which sounded better till I looked up the weights on the internet. My regular guy was selling crushed slate for $125 per yard and the other guys price which sounded cheap actually came to almost $400 per yard and they both got the rock from the same quarry. THe rock comes out very wet so by the ton would have also meant that I likely wouldnt have received anywhere near the volume per ton as quoted on the net. Places that sell by the ton will frequently water their stock pile to add weight also.

 

[Duffster]

Some places definitely try to confuse the customer by selling by weight rather than volume. I recently priced some stone from a different supplier just to see if my regular guy was being fair (he sells by the cubic yard) and the new guy quoted by the ton which sounded better till I looked up the weights on the internet. My regular guy was selling crushed slate for $125 per yard and the other guys price which sounded cheap actually came to almost $400 per yard and they both got the rock from the same quarry. THe rock comes out very wet so by the ton would have also meant that I likely wouldnt have received anywhere near the volume per ton as quoted on the net. Places that sell by the ton will frequently water their stock pile to add weight also.

So the place that sounded cheap was ~$260/ton?