older tractor, new pump= blew up in my face

[canucklehead]

I just bought a 1962 IH B414, 43 HP, gasoline engine. The previous owner said he replaced the hydraulic pump, followed by many old hoses rupturing and being replaced. Also, it wasn't the exact same pump, so they had to do some machining to make it fit. He told me that when you have the loader bucket or boom moved to any of the extremes and stay on the controls, pressure would build up quickly and hydraulic oil would leak out a fitting. I noticed this immediately and tightened the leaky fitting. ALSO, he told me all tractors leak some hydraulic oil, so to add in the resevoir under the seat. This requires removal of a return line. He said use the clear oil, but he didn't know the type. Interestingly, the old manual says use IH Hy-Tran, but if you don't have any, it gave 3 different motor oil options, depending on the outisde temperature (anything from straight 10 Weight to straight 30W oil).I had some AW32, and it's clear, so that's what I used. I know the old owner said he'd flushed the oil and used all clear hydraulic oil. Well, we added a gallon of fluid, and it wasn't quite to the top, but that was all the fluid I had. There's no dipstick (other than the operator ), so I assume you fill to the top.

So we started it up and the boom moved way quicker and easier, the bucket rolled; we seemed golden. The leaking fitting had been tightened and I had my son working the controls while I shone the work-light on the old leaking fitting, looking for signs of a weep. Nothing. Then BOOM!! . A newer hydraulic line, one that looks like it's been replaced, exploded right in my face. Freakin oil EVERYWHERE. It blew the rubber hose clean out of the metal crimp and I got it all over the face, eyes, mouth, jacket. My nearby travel trailer was covered. What a mess. Dangerous too... I think. My face felt burned.

SO... several things come to mind.
1)Is this the wrong fluid/oil to use? Does it matter if it's been flushed and I'm using all the same stuff in the lines now?
2)NO, it is not normal to leak fluid, but the leaking fitting was probably acting like a pressure relief valve. Shouldn't I have a pressure relief valve somewhere? How/where do I locate & identify this?
3)I assume pressure build up and lack of pressure relief is the reason these other hoses have ruptured, and not necessarily due to aging. or maybe fluid type/incompatability?
4) Can I add a pressure relief if there isn't one, and will this cure my problem? I really don't want anymore hoses suddenly blowing up in my face or all over my son while he's operating the tractor. SCARY!

PLEASE and THANK YOU for some insight. I'm in foreign territory here.

 

[Egon]

It's probably best you have someone knowledgeable look the system over and find out what is going on. It may just have been a faulty hose but there is potential for more incidents.
You don't really want to get another hit from broken hydraulic components.

 

[kenstrac]

First thing I would look at what is the relief pressure set at on the loader valve sounds like it's set to high. Or it's not working at all!

 

[The Haymaker]

Obviously a pressure relief problem, but I'd not have to worry about it. Any seller that told me "all tractors leak hydraulic oil" would not be making a sale to me!

That'd be like buying a Toyaota and having the salesman tell you "A vehicles have sticky throttles"...... Do I get the award for first Toyota pundit?

 

[AKKAMAAN]

Then BOOM!! . A newer hydraulic line, one that looks like it's been replaced, exploded right in my face.

Did the hose it self burst or split, or just come off the crimp fitting????

Freakin oil EVERYWHERE. It blew the rubber hose clean out of the metal crimp and I got it all over the face, eyes, mouth, jacket. My nearby travel trailer was covered. What a mess. Dangerous too... I think. My face felt burned.

If oil penetrated your body, more than into your mouth, go to Emergency Room, ER, at hospital!!

SO... several things come to mind.
1)Is this the wrong fluid/oil to use? Does it matter if it's been flushed and I'm using all the same stuff in the lines now?

The type of fluid did NOT make this happen....10w-30 is common as hydrulic fluid

2)NO, it is not normal to leak fluid, but the leaking fitting was probably acting like a pressure relief valve. Shouldn't I have a pressure relief valve somewhere? How/where do I locate & identify this?

YES, you should have a Pressure Relief Valve, PRV, somewhere...locate your hydraulic pump.....if the PRV is not built into the pump (which is very rare), you should find the PRV somewhere along the outlet pressure line, between the pump and the first Control Valve, CV.

3)I assume pressure build up and lack of pressure relief is the reason these other hoses have ruptured, and not necessarily due to aging. or maybe fluid type/incompatability?

As said above, it could have been a poor crimp job.....but if hose bursted/split....you have an excessive pressure problem.....most likely the PRV setting....

4) Can I add a pressure relief if there isn't one, and will this cure my problem? I really don't want anymore hoses suddenly blowing up in my face or all over my son while he's operating the tractor. SCARY!

I am sure there is a PRV some where.....You have to start with a pressure test....if you do not have hands on experience for this.....seek help....
You need to decribe in detail how your system is designed before any more advice about pressure test.

PLEASE and THANK YOU for some insight. I'm in foreign territory here.

Detail pictures always help a lot!!

Have an Owners Manual, OM???

If not Google to search for one....

 

[MikeD74T]

Get a gauge to plug into your hydraulics to verify the pressure. You can't fix it 'till you know what's broke. MikeD74T

 

[Mike058]

I just bought a 1962 IH B414, 43 HP, gasoline engine. The previous owner said he replaced the hydraulic pump, followed by many old hoses rupturing and being replaced. Also, it wasn't the exact same pump, so they had to do some machining to make it fit. He told me that when you have the loader bucket or boom moved to any of the extremes and stay on the controls, pressure would build up quickly and hydraulic oil would leak out a fitting.

I can't help you but your post made me think of a question of my own for anybody that might be able to answer.

A new pump was installed that wasn't the same as the original-After it was installed, "many old hoses" ruptured. Could the pump not have any kind of PRV (pressure relief valve) at all? Could it have been designed for a system with a separate means of regulating the pressure?

 

[RickB]

I can't help you but your post made me think of a question of my own for anybody that might be able to answer.

A new pump was installed that wasn't the same as the original-After it was installed, "many old hoses" ruptured. Could the pump not have any kind of PRV (pressure relief valve) at all? Could it have been designed for a system with a separate means of regulating the pressure?

Pretty good chance that's exactly what is going on.

 

[JoelD]

I can't help you but your post made me think of a question of my own for anybody that might be able to answer.

A new pump was installed that wasn't the same as the original-After it was installed, "many old hoses" ruptured. Could the pump not have any kind of PRV (pressure relief valve) at all? Could it have been designed for a system with a separate means of regulating the pressure?

It sounds plausable that maybe somehow the pressure release was integrated in the old pump, although I've not seen that before.

I'm thinking there's a pre-existing pressure release valve issue.

Bottom line, hydraulic fluid under pressure is no joke, you inject that stuff into yourself and you are in big trouble.

Your chances of serious injury are high. You have what may likely be run away pressure on an old machine which is more likely to have opportunity for pinhole leaks which are the ones that act like syringes.

I'f you do not have the experience I'd involve someone who does, not worth the risk.

Joel

 

[glastron23]

Harvester had a habit of mounting the PR's in the pump bodies.. we would install a gauge with a PR (set to 200 psi higher than system pressure)attached to it then plumb it in the line then SLOWLY bring up the pressure, if you get higher that system pressure then STOP... chances are their is no PR in the system... you will have to install one before the valves... Jim
if their is a PR then check the pressure setting, as the old pump was getting weak they may have tryed to adjust the PR to compensate