Off the grid living

[ecard]

I have been reading quite a few homesteading books and looking at alternative energy sources etc. I love the idea of be self sufficient, but I would like to get any advice or especially experiences from people who have tried it in today's society - with kids, computers, cable tv. I guess I would like to have the capability to generate my own power, heat, and some food, but would never want to be isolated. Also the economic feasibility - is it worth it to get solar cells, batteries, wind mills, generators?

Thanks for any advice...

Eric

 

[looch]

I have an issue of Mother Earth News about a guy who is doing just that. Showed his whole set-up with schematics. He used wind and solar in conjunction with a whack of batteries during the day. Batteries were charged at night using a generator. I can post more details if you want. Don't think it would be legal to post the article itself, though.

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

eric

the idea also appeals to me. However, make sure you have access to outside electrical. Many of the banks no longer like to loan on off-grid homes. Apparently they are afraid of being burned.

SHF

 

[Christopher]

We did it for 5 years, and want to eventually get this place off the grid too. It wasn't easy although I think it was the best thing that we could have done, I learned a lot. We bought some land way up on a hill in western Washington and built the house ourselves, we had a small 4000 watt generator for a while but it didn't last long so we just did without it, We finally went to a large battery pack and a 3 1/2hp Briggs engine hooked to an alternator to charge the batteries, We were just getting some solar panels when we moved so we didn't get to try them out very well, I think they would have been great. Our water system was a big tank situated higher than the house which was piped to the regular plumbing, for about 4 years I hauled the water to fill the tank with a 1949 Chevy 2 1/2 ton truck from the creek, Dad finally built a hydraulic ram pump and pumped from the creek to the tank, that was the neatest thing I have seen, the hill it had to pump up was about 200 feet streight up, it was impossible for anyone to walk up without grabbing on to a rope or something to help, that pump pumped all our water up that hill for a year without one drop of gasoline or one volt of electricity, it was fun to just stand there and watch it go thump thump thump 24/7 all by itself, and it was so simple to make! We used 12 volt power in the house streight from the battery, if I were to do it again I probbably would get an inverter so appliances could be run. We had propane hot water, refrigerator and stove, wood heat and most of our lights were kerosene lamps, we didn't have TV, computer, etc. We moved from there three years ago, because we needed (wanted ) more land, hated the rain over there, and the driveway was too steep. We have 80 acres here and an older home, we are slowly getting it ready to shut off the power, I am doing things a little diferent here too. We have a much better wind source so I will be using that and solar power, we will keep the usual appliances, computer, tools etc. so we need lots more power than before, I will use the generator for the big things like welder and air compressor.
As far as economic feasibility goes... it depends on how fancy you go and what you are willing to do without, I have several friends who have built their houses off the grid from the start, they have water power which is great and would be my first choice ( I don't have any running water nearby) one aquaintence runs a 180 acre place with two houses off his creek, and has power to spare, one benifit is his power never goes out when the neighbors does! he never has a power bill and maintenence is very little.
If you have any more questions I will be happy to help if I can, Christopher

 

[GlueGuy]

We live next to a community of about 25 or 30 homes that are all off the grid. They do it with a combination of solar, wind, and generators.

The ones that seem the most successful have converted to battery systems that run computerized inverters (Trace is the most popular brand). The entire house gets wired conventionally, and the inverters "pulse" the line to see if power is needed. Only when an appliance, or light bulb, or something is powered on do the inverters actually energize the circuit.

Seems to work pretty well. The pay-back time is pretty long, but when there is no electric utility, there's not much choice. They all run in a "mode" that economizes the use of electricity. For example, every one of them uses a propane refrigerator, and none of them has an "all electric" home. Light bulbs are all efficient varities, and so on.

One of them is a welder by profession. He has 100+ solar panels, with about 40 or 48 of them on two trackers (20 or 24 on each tracker). He also has a wind generator and a diesel generator. These days almost all of his power comes from the solar, as his wind generator has been having problems. He almost never runs the genny. None-the-less he has sufficient power to run a wide assortment of power tools: Saws, drills, TIG and MIG welders, compressors, you name it.

 

[n6ckv]

The best place to start is to check Home Power Magazine
http://homepower.com/
Have been reading it for years

carl

 

[ecard]

Thanks for the great information. I did find good information at mother earth news - thanks. Also found links to http://www.homepower.com/. I guess I will look to ways to decrease my dependence on the utility companies and I am planning to do a whole house remodel - that would probably be the most economical time to go off the grid - I will check with the bank - good tip.

Just a commentary, I am in my thirties and was exposed very little to farming growing up and have so much interest in farming, agriculture, homesteading - lost skills, farming, country living, canning, organics, biodynamics, and living off the land. This information and experience is not easy to find or come by. I have had to search and read and try things without assistance (except for the great people at TBN). It seems that Americans will not only lose a great heritage of pioneers, farmers, and homestaeaders, but will also lose the security and ability to support themselves in times of great need. Even though we have so much technology and progress, I bet >95 % of people would fail miserably if any aspect of our society failed - energy, food, health, security. So I wonder where the interest went? To me this is as much an issue of homeland security as border control and airline saftey. - sorry for rambling


Hey, I also found a way to link this to tractors -check out the picture.

 

[unaka]

I don't think I'll ever live off the grid, although certain aspects are appealing. I'm too used to flipping a switch and seeing the lights come on without having to do troubleshooting, maintenance, battery replacement, etc. And believe me, there's lots of etc.

My neighbor has a hydro system set up from his pond that turns a small turbine. It powers lights, and a tv, but not much of anything else, and he's also fiddled with some solar power. His system requires constant maintenance, and a good understanding of AC/DC, wattage, Amps, etc., and a huge battery bank. I can't see myself spending that much time (or money) maintaining a power system. I'd much rather use that time playing on my tractor.

Having said all this, I have seen recent positive developments in the area of energy independence. Some companies are coming out with fuel cells for the home. It's the same basic technology that powers some of the hybrid cars on the roads now. The ones being developed for home use are not much bigger than a normal heat pump, and are fueled by propane. I don't understand all the technology here, but apparently it is more of a chemical reaction and not combustion that generates the electricity, so there's no harmful emissions released. Apparently, the chemical reaction produces two things: Hot water and electricity. The problem seems to be that the life of one of these, due to carbon build up, is only around 7 years or so, and the cost is still very high. Check out this website if you want more info. www.plugpower.com
It has some good basic info on this technology.

Unaka

 

[gws]

Before you even start thinking about the economics of solar power you need to define what your power needs are. How much power do you need. Add up all the power devices you have and figure out how much power you need. Now add up all the power devices and figure out what you can live with. The biggest problem is converting is all the waste we have in power. Most electronic devices now never really go off. Even a GFCI outlet with nothing plugged into it will draw a couple watts. They are always drawing power. This is wasted power that you have to keep in mind. There is a good article about phantom loads at http://www.humboldt1.com/~michael.welch/extras/phantom.pdf or http://www.stretcher.com/stories/990913l.cfm

Now that you have your power requirements you need to determine your solar enviornment. How much sun do you get a day on average. This will help you size your system and determine your battery requirements.

Take this info your local solar panels are us and get ready for a sticker shock. Solar panels are running $5/watt new. Add to that several thousand for an inverter to get from 12/24v back to 110volts so your current devices will work. Also dont forget a couple grand for a good backup generator in case something breaks. You should also keep in mind that your local electric company may have a minimum fee even if you dont use any electric at all. Your bill is full of fee's that are not part of the electrical generatation.

Depending on what you pay for electric the economics often dont work out if your currently on the grid. There are some tax breaks for solar powered homes, but thats usually a 1 time deal. You might cost justify a few circuits on solar but whole (modern) house solar upgrades are expensive.

I dont want to discourage you, infact I wish everyone would convert, that would drive the price down so it becomes more practical. I am in the process of converting my ham radio/computer room over to solar assisted power but even that cost a bit.


http://www.mrsolar.com/ is a nice site with info about solar PV systems.

 

[CSAW]

Christopher. What is a hydraulic ram pump and what powers it?