'Nuther Stupid Rock

   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #1  

Harv

Elite Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2000
Messages
3,371
Location
California - S.F. East Bay & Sierra foothills
Tractor
Kubota L2500DT Standard Transmission
\'Nuther Stupid Rock

Might be more appropriate to name this thread "Stupid Harv", but I prefer to blame the inanimate objects.
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Some of you may recall some of my previous encounters with the stupid rocks lurking in the dark recesses of my property, like the one I dubbed and the infamous star of the <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin/compact/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=projects&Number=130113&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1#Post130113>Seemed Like Such A Simple Project thread. Well, this time the culprit was too small to qualify for a tractor story, but it managed to bring my project to an untimely halt nonetheless.

I was dutifully trying to improve the fire breaks around the property, and to that end I had decided that a number of small oaks had to go. Heck, they looked like volunteer sprouts anyway, and now they were 10 to 15 tall and just plain getting in the way of a stretch that could otherwise be easily tractored. Didn't want any stumps sticking up, don't have a real backhoe, so my genius plan was to dig down around them with the dreaded oh-my-aching backhoe (pick and shovel) and cut 'em off below ground level. I'd done it before with satisfactory results, but this time I had half a dozen to do and only a few hours to do it in.

The digging went as expected, with the usual ill-placed roots and assortment of rocks to limber up the dark side of my vocabulary, but I had it done within a reasonable amount of time. I cleared an area around the stumps several feet in diameter and maybe 14 to 16 inches below ground level. All I had to do then was to whack 'em off with a hand saw and/or an ax.

Now, it turned out that one pair of trees was sharing a common trunk below ground, like maybe somebody had already done this years ago and these guys were just new offshoots. Fine with me, but now I'm looking at a 12 to 14-inch diameter stump and the clock is ticking. No problemo, I'll just wire brush the outside clean as a whistle and whip out the chainsaw. I'm not fond of working that close to the ground with a chainsaw, but I had created a comfortable amount of work space and I'd be cutting at least 6 inches above the floor of the hole.

Tried it out on a couple of the smaller stumps just to get the feel, and they were done in a matter of seconds. Cool. /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif So I start on the big'un and it was like a hot piano wire through butter. About 2/3 of the way through, progress seemed to slow, so I backed off, checked my clearance on all sides, looked for obstacles, made sure the chain was turning freely and re-engaged the cut. Nothing. The saw was definitely not going anywhere. Uh-oh... /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

Briefly tried cutting a nearby branch that was on my hit list, and yep, barely scratched the bark. Shut the saw off, popped my chainsaw helmet, hearing protectors and safety goggles and put on my up-close glasses. Hmmm... Aren't chainsaws supposed to have teeth?
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Lesson learned -- trees, especially that part close to or under the dirt, can grow around stuff. After I finished the cut with wedges and a sledge hammer, I discovered a pocket of dirt and a stupid rock completely embedded within the stump. The rock was quite small, maybe an inch or two in diameter, but it did a real dental number on the chainsaw teeth. Nothing but cavities. /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

The only thing left to do at this point was to take pictures to share with my TBN buds, and pack up for home, where I would simply buy another blade for next time. The attached pictures tell the story, up to and including the shiny new blade.

Stupid rock.
 

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   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #2  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

Harv:
Don't feel bad Harv, you have just joined a club to which almost everyone who uses a chain saw belongs to. Sometimes you'll even get them little rocks in a crotch above ground. Nothing a new chain or file will not fix. Some people will will use an old chain that does not have much sharpening life in it for such projects.
Others with a nice B7500 at their disposal will dispense with pick and shovel and use the bucket to dig around the stumps and undercut the roots [ easiest if the full tree is standing] and push-pull drag the whole thing out of the hole. Some will even use a b7100 for a job like this.
Others farm fields in order to grow rocks as is my case.
Cheers:
Egon
 
   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #3  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

Sounds like an excellent justification for a backhoe to me!

Pete
 
   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #4  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

I can't tell you how many times I've hit stones imbedded in tree stumps, but that's the price you pay if you want stumps low enough to brush hog over. A bigger problem for me has been barbed wire! Apparently the early settlers nailed barbed wire to tree trunks whenever they could to avoid digging post holes and to save a bit on posts. Now, a century later (more or less), bits of that barbed wire are buried under the bark. You sure do get a nice shower of sparks when you hit some. I have a half a dozen chains for my saw and one or two are always at the dealer being sharpened when I'm clearing brush. I've learned the hard way, too, that you can only cut into a stump a little ways before pulling out the blade and giving the chain a chance to cool. It's really discouraging when you find out that the chain has gotten too hot and is stretched too far to be of further use and the blade has to be replaced because it has been too hot and the groove is too distorted to be of use. I'm a slow learner, so this happened more than once.
 
   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #5  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

Harv:
I know the feeling! My problem turned out to be barbed wire that was embedded in a tree about three inches. Apparently the people that had this property back in ought six decided to use the trees down by the creek for fence posts. In the years since the trees grew around the old wire and it has been long gone so there was no indication of wire attached to the trees. I was zipping through said tree when the most awful grinding noise appeared out of nowhere and lo and behold, my chain was missing six teeth. This calls for replacement of the chain. What impressed me though was my uncanny ability to cut at just the right place to hit a quarter inch diameter wire that was not visible. Dang I'm good. Live and hopefully learn.
PK
 
   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

<font color=blue>use the bucket</font color=blue> ... <font color=blue>push-pull drag the whole thing out of the hole</font color=blue>

Been there, done that, Egon. On the first tree, which was maybe 5 inches in diameter, I used the bucket to dig a swimming pool-sized hole and cut as many roots as I could reach with an ax. Then I notched the tree about 3 feet above the ground and wrapped a chain around it and gave it a tug with my L2500DT. After several attempts which resulted in 4 new wheel-shaped holes in the ground, the tree broke off just above the stump (above ground level, of course /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif).

On the next tree, I tried a similar approach, but dug even deeper and successfully whacked off all but the main root. If I hadn't been pressed for time, I would've taken a picture of my 'Bota doing a wheelie.
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I suspect that playing more with pulling angles and maybe the addition of a wroughtn stump lever might've imporved my chances, but I opted for chainsaw approach instead.

<font color=blue>Sounds like an excellent justification for a backhoe to me!</font color=blue>

Yeah, Pete, I almost gave you a call, but I couldn't think how to explain the fact that I don't drink coffee. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Fact is, even I have been unable to justify buying a backhoe, even if I had a place to store it. As infrequently as I need one, renting would make more sense, but the nearest rental yard is more than an hour's drive away. I doubt they would deliver and pick up, and I have no trailer or even a good vehicle to tow it with. Remember, I'm just a wimpy computer geek.
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Glenn and PK -- thanks for the warning about barbed wire, even if there's no sure-fire way to avoid it. There are ancient barbed wire fences scattered all around my property, so it's probably just a matter of time. When my dad was still around, he used to point out a tree that was growing around a beer can that somebody had jammed in its crotch (hate when that happens). I forgot about it for a number of years, and when I finally decided to go check on its status, the can was no longer visible. Better tie a ribbon around that one. /w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

BTW -- I'm on my way back up there right now. Let's see how far I get this time.
 
   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #7  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

Harv:
Guess the trees I've dug out were more shallow rooted. Although I do rember one of about 16 in. dia. on which I used a jackall with 4 ft. snipe and then pushed down on the snipe with the bucket. It made a lovely bonfire.

Egon
 
   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #8  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

Harv,
The 'Bota didn't pull them out? I've found that a little digging around the stump, and whacking the roots with a Pulaski will usually make them pop out. Although, I usually use the truck since my little B8200 is so lite weight. A 3/4 ton 4wd usually does the trick. And, it'll tow the L35 TLB from the rental yard when needed/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif. Remember too, to get that chain low to the ground; otherwise the stump will tend to snap off like what happened in your case.

Those Pulaski's are handy tools, well worth having. Every fire engine around here has at least one. They work great for cutting line, especially where you run into rock and roots.

Also, since being with the fire dept, I found they keep tools sharp, including shovels and "grubbing tools" like the Pulaski. It makes a HUGE difference!

I have also found that on some stumps, I just leave them after cutting them as close to the ground as I can. Then, I'll take the biggest bit my 18v DeWalt can handle, and drill lots of holes in the stump, to encourage breakdown of the remaining stump. If I can reach with a extension cord, I take the Hole Hog out there, and drill 2" holes everywhere I can reach on the stump. Then, let them rot for a season, and they come out real easy.

Note that the rental yards around here want you to use thier trailer, although they rarely charge for the trailer itself. Also, most will deliver and pick up the tractor, for those like you who are "truck challenged". However, they usually want $50-100 for both delivery and pick-up.
 
   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #9  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

I inquired about renting a trailer to transport a rented tractor/bushhog - $75. For them to deliver and pickup the tractor was $50! The owner said there were too many problems with people unfamiliar with driving trailers - they set this price break to discourage trailer rental.
 
   / 'Nuther Stupid Rock #10  
Re: \'Nuther Stupid Rock

I showed my daughter a picture of your rock. She asked if there was a picture of you. I showed her your picture and she said, "We see that guy alot!" /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
 
 
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