Not a tractor, but a tiller question

[handirifle]

I have a walk behind, rear tine Craftsman tiller. A couple month back while using it, I hit a BIG rock, and something broke. When moving under power it did fine, but when trying to till it just made a clackety-clack sound.

I took it apart, completely apart, and found that one of the cluster gears had broken off a tooth. I have no repair manual for it, but figured out how to swap the gear, and ordered a new replacement from Sears, and a new gasket for the gear housing.

The parts arrived a few days ago, and today I put them in. Fit perfect. Took me a while to remember where all the bolts and parts went though:laughing:.

Anyway, it seems to be just fine, EXCEPT, when the tines are engaged and lifted in the air, they spin fine. When lowered to the ground, they try to spin but do not.

The question, is this. I know that the internal drive parts are all fine, they are either chain or gear driven and nothing is broken, now.

The external drive is belt with the hand the hand lever that engages it. This is a cable activated pulley that tightens the drive belt. This cable has a spring connection on it at the pulley end.

I am assuming that I might not have this cable/spring connection, applying enough tension to the pulley, and thus it is slipping instead of turning the tines?

I could not remember or tell where it was connected before, since there are numerous holes on the pulley bracket that it can connect to. In addition, there is more room to slide the cable itself back to add more tensions as well.

Anyone have a manual to look this up in or happen to know it off hand.

Any help appreciated.

Oh, by the way, when I bought the tiller, it was a return to Sears, still new really (long since out of warranty). It was returned because it was tricky/hard to engage the drive gears. The new gear cluster cured that problem, so that must have been the cause of it and maybe a rough and weak gear to start? Since the shear pins on the tines, didn't shear!

 

[Egon]

With the engine shut off and the drive system engaged try and turn the tines??

 

[plumbstraight]

First I would take the belt off and see if you can turn the pulley that drives the tines. Of course tie a tine to the case so it won't turn and see if the pulley will turn.
Might be just a pin that was not put back in on the shaft letting it all work when free but not under strain.
Most hand tillers have a worm drive so if the tines turn just by hand, something is not hooked up inside. That is trying to turn by the tines, not by the pulley.

 

[handirifle]

Well that sucks, cause I can turn them when engaged. I can turn the pulley and the tines separate. There was no pim that i took out on the inside. It is gears driven by chains, and no chains were taken off and all gears went back where they came. I did not pull the gears out completely until I had the new part, it it was pull out old, put in new, then close up the clamshell housing and put it all back together. The pulley is locked on by a flat side of the shaft it drives. This is a puzzle.

 

[billbill1]

It sounds to me like there is a pin or a key sheared, you should be able to turn the pulley and watch the shaft(s) One shaft will be turning and the gear will be stationary.

 

[Egon]

<Well that sucks, cause I can turn them when engaged. I can turn the pulley and the tines separate>

Ok; when engaged tines turn easily? They should be very hard to turn as you would also be trying to turn over the engine.

Look how the drive belt tensioning device works and try and tighten it. If that don't work you may need a shorter belt. There may also be a chance the belt is worn or too narrow.

 

[Ken]

I also have a Sear rear tined roto tiller.
inside the drive for the tines is shaft (spacers) to run in alignment. on mine 1 of the spacers was missing and the chain would jump off the sprocker under load. it took several removial of all the bolts and opening the sprocket drives to figure out why.
made one out of washers 1/4 thickness to keep chain the alignment.
This may help with the problem.

ken

 

[plumbstraight]

Only thing I can think of to check it out is to spit the case again, leave on side on and turn the pulley and see what is not engaged inside.

 

[skipmarcy]

I have the Sears tiller I bought 22 years ago and here is the exploded view from the manual that came with it. I too chipped a tooth way back in 1994 when I turned-up a full 12" concrete block that was buried. I repaired it then and have used it very hard ever since and still works great. Good luck with your repair !!!

 

[handirifle]

The belt is fine, it was fine before the tooth broke. It broke cause, like skipmarcy, it dug up a huge rock.

The chain is not coming off the sprocket, that I know for sure. I will look at an exploded view to see IF there is a keyway I was not aware of, for the gear. I can look at the old gear and see if it has a key slot in it. I did not remember seeing one before.

If something sheared, it was in addition to the gear tooth breaking as well. I spose that is possible.

 

[handirifle]

Well, I looked at the old gear, no splines, so nothing sheared there.
Here is the diagram for the transmission, gear number 39 was what was broken and replaced.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/par...P0901087/00004?blt=06&prst=0&shdMod=917299160

What I am wondering now, is the possibility of part number 49, the tine shaft kit, they call it. I wonder if that gear (which is the toothed gear for the chain) might be spinning on the tine shaft? Anyone ever have a model similar and have an issue like that?

When I had it open before EVERYTHING seemed to spin and engage correctly. The only thing I am a little unsure of is the belt tensioning system. It is not the cause of this problem, because I can spin the big drive pulley while holding the tines, fairly easily too.

When engaged and the motor running, anything more than grass (like dirt or heavy weeds) will stop the tines. It doesn't even try to dig in the dirt, but neither does it make any odd noises while doing so either.

I am going to try their parts "chat" line and see what their guy says.

 

[handirifle]

Well, I checked it again, last night and even though I can still turn the tines and tine shaft freely, just going by feel, it feels like there is nothing else inside, like the attached chain, turning.

So, it looks like I am definitely going to have to dismantle the thing again.

I have two pallets of used brick to lay out in a walkway first, but when that is done I will get back on it and post here.

 

[handirifle]

Ok finally found this thread again. Was looking for it to post an update, cause I finally fixed the tiller. I had it in my shop for a few months cause it was low priority to fix it since I didn't need a tiller again soon.

So, I got tired of looking at in taking up space and yesterday, I pulled it apart to have a look see. I could not believe what I found. According to design, the drive shaft for the tines has a sprocket welded to it, at least according to design. As I was taking it all apart I put a screwdriver through the hole the shear pin goes through, while the gears were engaged. The sprocket spun on the shaft.

After pulling it apart and cleaning all the grease off, I studied it a few minutes and saw that the sprocket was SUPPOSED to be welded to the shaft. At first I thought it was a press fit since everything looked so smooth, but upon closer exam, I saw a very nice looking weld bead going all the way around the sprocket right next to the shaft. It looked like the weld had penetrated about as deep as a layer of chrome would be, and only on about 3/4" of about a 4" circumference. It's amazing it did as much work as it did before it broke.

The weld bead completely circled the shaft, but never touched it. So much for quality control there. i bet it's a robot weld, but something was definitely not adjusted right.

So, I pulled the sprocket off, ground down most of the original weld, and welded it myself.


I now have a working tiller again....yipee!

Anyway, just thought I'd post the update since this was such an odd issue. I KNOW my weld will hold, I could see it melting into the shaft. Thanks to the good folks on this site, I have made HUGE strides in my welding.