No trade in value?

/ No trade in value? #1  

DirtHauler

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
465
Location
Northern Cali ~~~ "Weed" Country
Tractor
" '06" Kioti CK30 2015 Mahindra 2555 shuttle 2019 Massey 1760M
Went to my dealer today to get filters for my CK20, got to "eye-ballin" the CK30 shuttle shift with FEL. Just for the heck of it, I asked him what kind of trade in I could get towards the 30, said I'd get VERY little! I guess I must be stupid or very confused. Here's my tractor not a year old yet, paid cash, has 54 hrs. on it and is in excellent condition and it ain't worth nothing /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Can anyone explain this (in laymans terms) to me?
Just curious.
 
/ No trade in value? #2  
I suspect one of the problems was that he knew you weren't seriously considering buying it. He certainly wasn't going to commit a price unless you guys really got down to the nitty gritty of buying, and of course, a dealer doesn't WANT to give very much for a trade in. It's usually better to sell outright with cars AND tractors.
That this dealer made this statement is no indication of the true value of a trade in on your tractor. There has to be a lot more conversation than an offhand, well how much could I... type of question.
John
 
/ No trade in value? #3  
Another thought-with 0% financing for 3 years on a new tractor, who would want a slightly used tractor that they would have to pay some interest on with a loan? For that tractor to be marketable against a brand new one to another consumer, he probably could not give you much on trade, and still make a profit for his dealership. It works the same for cars, boats, etc. About the only thing that did work for was Harley, and that was when the new ones were in short supply. CK20s are not in short supply, although I think they are selling quite well. The only way to try to beat that is to sell it yourself, and even then it would be tough to get a price close to a new tractor with 0 interest.
 
/ No trade in value? #4  
In simple terms look at the math (we'll use rounded numbers to make it easy)

Assume you are trading in a CK20 tractor/implements that cost you $12,000.
Assume a new CK20 with the same stuff is still $12,000.

+ The brand new CK20, if financed at 0% costs $12,000 to the buyer.
- A used CK20, if financed at roughly 5.5% will cost an added $1500 in interest for a total of $13,500 to the buyer.

+ Assume the dealer gets financing from Kioti to floorplan a tractor on his lot. In essense he borrows the tractor (or perhaps rents it at a low price) until he sells it.
- A dealer essentially buys a used tractor at the trade in price, so it actually costs him some cash flow.

+ Assume the dealer needs to make $750 on a new tractor to stay in business. That price is built into the $12,000 selling price the consumer pays.
- The same $750 profit margin must be SUBTRACTED from price he can give you, so he can add it to the sales price when he sells it.

+ A new CK20 comes to the buyer with that "new car" smell.
- A used CK20 comes to the buyer with some real questions that lurk in the back of the buyers mind like if this was such a good machine why didn't he keep it?


So, a consumer walks in and wants to buy a tractor from a dealer. There is a used (54hr) CK20 and a new CK20 sitting side by side.

The new CK20 costs $12,000, the dealer makes $750, the consumer pays 0% interest.

The used CK20 value is $12,000 LESS $1500 interest equalizer ($10,500) less $750 dealer margin (value now only = $9750) and we have not even figured out the dealers potential lost cash flow on floorplanning (if available) and even more importantly we have not calculated anthing for 1st year depreciation yet! So the consumer saves some money (pays ~$10,500 or a bit more), but the trade in given is going to be at least $750 lower than the consumer pays, the guy trading in is the loser.

These numbers strictly are the math to show an EQUAL deal where the consumer is ACTUALLY paying EXACTLY $12,000 for a used tractor. So with that in mind, the consumer would actually be better off buying new for exactly the same price.

So I suspect that if you tried to sell it outright, you could sell it for more than a dealer would give as trade in, however, you would still be competing with the "0% financing" factor and that drives down your value. As does the dubious concept of buying from an individual who may not be trustworthy in the eyes of the buyer (no reflection on you personally, just a real observation that some buyers might have). While I think Kioti probably is a good brand, it has much less name recognition to many consumers than John Deere or Kubota have, so that also MAY (in newer markets) hurt the value of the Kioti. So there are lots of factors that hurt the price of 1 year old machines.

NOW, it all changes if the machines are in great demand and in short supply. But lets be honest here, there are lots of people selling CUTS now and lots of brands to choose from.


Financing numbers based on 5 years, $0.00 down payment. Now an uneducated consumer might not do the math, so he might pay more than $9750, and end up actually paying more in TOTAL dollars for the used tractor, but the math above is an example of a rational purchasing decision. Changing the terms of the loan (% rate and/or years), including a down payment, or paying cash would all change the numbers, but the concept would hold true. And this would be why our Mama's told us to do our homework when we were kids because some day we'd actually have to use math.
/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
/ No trade in value? #5  
We've just about all beaten this subject to death when it comes to buying a nearly new used tractor. With the 0% and low % loans, the new tractor has been more attractive for a while now.
When interest rates go up some more (just increased 1/4 point again), and dealers stop offering such low financing, the values of used are going to go up.
That's why most of the time, a three year old and older tractor is going to get back more money than a nearly new. Prices have already increased twice on tractors since I bought mine. Mine will be holding more of it's value each year, but not in inflation-corrected dollars.
John
 
/ No trade in value? #6  
I actually am going to disagree with some of this. If we had a tractor like this it would sell for $500 or so under the cost of a brand new one. Yes, you have to give value to financing. However many customers come in looking to pay cash... frankly, the cash discounts are a joke so with a tractor like this if you can show a $500 savings it will move.
 
/ No trade in value? #7  
Exactly.
 
/ No trade in value? #8  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I actually am going to disagree with some of this. If we had a tractor like this it would sell for $500 or so under the cost of a brand new one. )</font>
And I doubt you'd sell it for that price either. If someone is standing there looking at a new one with a full warranty for $500 more than the used one you're selling, I'd almost bet that they'd go the extra $500. Now, maybe if you priced it at $1000 less, I'd buy that.
Still, the dealer isn't going to give that great a value in trade for any newer used tractor when faced with this dilemma. He/she is going to need to get a good profit margin in there.
John
 
/ No trade in value? #9  
Probably the same as car dealers. A dealer wants to get at least 20% on selling a trade in, hence they will usually offer you 20% or less that the retail value.
 
/ No trade in value? #10  
Messick:
I don't think so.......
As a matter of fact I know that that doesn't fly.....
Do you really think $500 savings is worth a year less warranty and that is going to make this tractor move........
Give me a break!

Trade ins on nearly new equipment are very hard to deal with because they always hurt the dealer UNLESS the dealer steals it from the customer and we (personally) won't do it.
We will consign it free but won't rape a customer on a trade.

KO
 
/ No trade in value? #11  
You can disagree with me if you want, but its possible. I don't quite get the harsh tone.

Just 3 weeks ago I took back a Kubota ZG23, customer paid $6795 for it. He put 13 hrs on it during the 13 months that he had it, his family could not get used to the ZTR and they moved to a GR2100. It sold a few days later for $6100. Thats with a year less warrenty and no financing. It sure can be done, you just have to have the right product in the right place.
 
/ No trade in value? #12  
Didn't mean it to sound harsh....
Guess we have to many bargain hunters in our area.
I have a ZTR on the lot now that the filter is rusty (paint flaked off) customer wants to know if it's used and since it's rusty I should take off $500...that is a new unused unit. I will change the filter out, but there really isn't anything wrong with it.

I'm just saying in our area if it is used or just and unsold new unit...they want alot of money off.
I may luck into selling a unit like that (out of new ones etc) but if the new unit and the used unit are there with 500 difference between them.....
No-one here will come near the used one.

KO
 
/ No trade in value? #13  
Dirthauler
Do you have any idea what he meant by "very little"?

Others have made some assumptions about trading in, and the problems the dealer has with a nearly new CK20 sitting on their lot with new ones similarly priced.

I was just curious as to what you would give to trade up to the CK30, and what you might want to 'swallow' for your first 50 hours of work on the CK20.

I have a 5 (going on 6) year old Deere 4300, and I am thinking of trading up. Last year my dealer was thinking about $7000 additional to go up to a Deere 4410, which was not in my 'excitable' area (I would have for $5000 but I didn't tell him that). The dealer salesman was disappointed when I said "no, not ready, going to wait for the 3X20's" because he had my 4300 sold already. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
/ No trade in value? #14  
What scares me Bob, is that I actually understood what you just said... /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
/ No trade in value? #15  
I am not going to go into the techinical aspects, But there are plenty of buyers that figure a slightly used tractor is ALWAYS a better buy than new.(this may not be true) but that is how they think. i think you could sell it outright for more than the dealer would give in trade.
 
/ No trade in value?
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Hey, thanks for all the input. Everything that you all said makes sense. But I figuered he could sell it fairly quick considering he says he can't get any 20's for awhile, seems demand has out stripped supply in the U.S. so it will be awhile before Kioti gets more to the states or at least to the west coast. Maybe I'll just buy the 30 ( it's only a little over 16k w/fel, R4's) and the wife can run the 20! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif, we'll just share implements. Thanks again
 
/ No trade in value? #17  
If you want to get the most resale value from a tractor, you need to buy a John Deere. Kubota, Kioti, New Holland, etc. just don't have the resale value of a John Deere -- that is just the plain and simple truth. BTW, I'm a Kubota owner.
 
/ No trade in value? #18  
I'd agree with you, but only on the lawn and garden tractors. If you look at the blue books there is no difference between Kubota, Deere, and NH. Of course... like everything that we talk about, its a regional thing and I know Deere is strong in the area you live in.
 
/ No trade in value? #19  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( its a regional thing and I know Deere is strong in the area you live in.)</font>

That may be true. However, it is a sad fact that where I live, if you want to sell a Kioti or some other "non-big 3" tractor, you better try on eBay or someplace like that. Most dealers close to me won't hardly trade for a Kioti. They generally sit on the lot until their tires dry rot. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Now, before you get all huffy, if you have read any of my recent posts, I am particularly ticked at one of the big 3 and will never buy from them again after the way I've been treated. I say this so you don't twist what I say into me saying that everything but the big 3 are junk. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I call it like I see it; even if it is slamming one of the big 3 on their lack of quality or dealer support. I wouldn't make a good politician. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
/ No trade in value? #20  
<font color="green">
What scares me Bob, is that I actually understood what you just said... </font>

GreenRules . . . I can relate very well to the people who ride the "short bus" to school and have learned a lot by talking s-l-o-w and LOUD.



<font color="red"> Most dealers close to me won't hardly trade for a Kioti. They generally sit on the lot until their tires dry rot. </font>

DARGO . . . I don't think anyone here would consider you a Kioti basher. But the reality is, in your area, Kioti was represented by a crummy dealer who hurt the product line's reputation and if I am correct, there is another dealer near you who is considering dropping the brand. It just never got traction in that area of Indiana and the high prices the dealers quoted, at a premium over the Big 3 brands, didn't help any either.
 

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