No start troubles

[RjCorazza]

OK, BX2200 is back from the shop. I may jinx myself but I doubt it: The new "hard start kit" is listed on the dealer invoice as an "AM107421 Quickstart" costing me $89. I just searched the AM107421 Quickstart using Google and found out they are on Amazon for $30. So I was "had" on the parts price but I will say the result is outstanding so far. Starts up quicker/more immediate response and SO FAR never fails to crank when asked to do so. Well worth it even at the rip off parts price.

Sick that the manufacturers don't include this feature on all of them from the factory (not just BX2200 but the small Deeres and many others.

Who would not pay the $30 extra in machine price (probably 1/10 of that if put on at the factory) if they knew it was going to prevent the countless times of being hung trying to start the thing !!!

I wired up my own relay on my ZD mowers several years ago. I had the miscellaneous connectors and wire, so the only expense were the relays and time. Both mowers worked great afterwards, but I still seemed to need to replace the solenoid after 500-600 hours on the machines (about every two years).
I haven't added the relay to my current ZD1211 with 700 hours on the clock.
I agree that it's definitely a worthwhile modification even at the marked up price.

 

[General Lee]

Bumping this thread as I have not found a solution. Only now instead of the problem previously being intermittent, it now simply does nothing when the key is turned all the way to the right to start. Turning the key left will engage the glow plugs and I get the standard click sound when that happens. Go to turn the right to start....Nothing. So it seems the ignition switch works for the glow plugs but not to start the tractor. The tractor will fire right up though by jumping the starter through the starter solenoid with a pigtail. If I can jump start the tractor through the starter, could it really be a battery issue? I'm thinking No.

 

[lpakiz]

Yeah, if it starts by jumping the solenoid, it's not a battery or battery cable or battery connection problem. It's a failure of the system to supply an adequate voltage signal to the solenoid.
Somewhere back in this thread, someone suggested to check for full voltage at the SOLENOID terminal when the key is activated to the "start" position. I cautioned everyone to be aware of the shortcomings of a digital meter. I prefer a test light in this situation.
So did you check what kind of signal you are getting at the solenoid?

If you want to take a couple WAGs at things, hook your test light ( in any order but easiest switch first) to one, then the other terminal of the HST safety switch, the PTO safety switch and the seat safety switch. When you twist the key, both terminals should be hot.

Or you can unplug the wires from the safety switches and connect them. I use a piece of a large paper clip. Cut it so you have a U-shaped piece of wire, and jam each leg into the wires you unplugged. Don't hang onto it, in case there is a short. The paper clip can turn red hot and you will have a perfect U-shaped brand on your thumb and finger.
Again, did you have power at the solenoid when you tested that location?
There are more troubleshooting strategies (a bit more complicated) I can explain if you can't get this figured out.
Good Luck!

 

[JWR]

Bumping this thread as I have not found a solution. Only now instead of the problem previously being intermittent, it now simply does nothing when the key is turned all the way to the right to start. Turning the key left will engage the glow plugs and I get the standard click sound when that happens. Go to turn the right to start....Nothing. So it seems the ignition switch works for the glow plugs but not to start the tractor. The tractor will fire right up though by jumping the starter through the starter solenoid with a pigtail. If I can jump start the tractor through the starter, could it really be a battery issue? I'm thinking No.

No, of course not. I told you in post #3 what the problem is with near certainty.

 

[General Lee]

Yeah, if it starts by jumping the solenoid, it's not a battery or battery cable or battery connection problem. It's a failure of the system to supply an adequate voltage signal to the solenoid.
Somewhere back in this thread, someone suggested to check for full voltage at the SOLENOID terminal when the key is activated to the "start" position. I cautioned everyone to be aware of the shortcomings of a digital meter. I prefer a test light in this situation.
So did you check what kind of signal you are getting at the solenoid?

If you want to take a couple WAGs at things, hook your test light ( in any order but easiest switch first) to one, then the other terminal of the HST safety switch, the PTO safety switch and the seat safety switch. When you twist the key, both terminals should be hot.

Or you can unplug the wires from the safety switches and connect them. I use a piece of a large paper clip. Cut it so you have a U-shaped piece of wire, and jam each leg into the wires you unplugged. Don't hang onto it, in case there is a short. The paper clip can turn red hot and you will have a perfect U-shaped brand on your thumb and finger.
Again, did you have power at the solenoid when you tested that location?
There are more troubleshooting strategies (a bit more complicated) I can explain if you can't get this figured out.
Good Luck!

I simply am not good at electrical diagnostics. Unless I had an how to video on which connections to poke around with and how to test them......I'm lost. Like you mentioned, I'd be the one burning a U shape on my fingers with the paper clip. Only reason I know how to jump the starter, is because I was shown how. "Put this alligator clip here, and the other end here" and whola. If I had a known problem part to replace, I can do that. But poking around with multimeters and test lights.......Don't know what I'm doing.

 

[JWR]

If you can, have a trailer or can borrow or readily have someone do it, take it to a [AFFILIATE=1, nofollow=true, newwindow=true, title="Kubota"]Kubota[/AFFILIATE] dealer and ask them to install a "hard start kit." Describe to them your experience. Mine cost $89 at a dealer including installation and Amazon sells the kits for 1/3 of that but it takes some savvy to do the install. Doing it this way (haul to dealer) will also flush out the (very unlikely) case where something else is wrong.

 

[lpakiz]

I support the idea of temporarily bypassing some of those safety switches, especially all of them at once, like the "hard start" thing does. However, there are several easy, no-cost tests you cannperform first, if one knows how or can be coached thru the process.
To test if the solenoid is being energized, hook one wire of your tester (voltmeter or test light) to a good ground. Touch the other end to the big starter terminal right there on the starter. This is a "test the tester first" strategy I follow. If the meter or light reacts, then un hook that lead and hook it to the small "energizer" terminal on the starter solenoid. Then hit the key. The meter or light should indicate the presence of power at the energizer terminal.

If power is present when you twist the key, you can pretty much assume that all the safety switches and the key switch itself is OK.
If no power is present when you twist the key, then we will go further into some tests you can do easily, and probably learn some basics to help yourself out next time.

 

[JWR]

The "hard start kit" installed by [AFFILIATE=1, nofollow=true, newwindow=true, title="Kubota"]Kubota[/AFFILIATE] dealers is not a temporary bypass of anything. It is permanent. Same function sold by John Deere.

 

[lpakiz]

I somehow assumed that it was a system that the operator could activate as needed. Don't know how I arrived at that conclusion.
If I were to develop such a system, it might have a master switch that could be placed in BYPASS or switched (locked?) into PROTECTED. Then one could choose when to bypass and when to assure protection, depending on circumstances.

 

[JWR]

I somehow assumed that it was a system that the operator could activate as needed. Don't know how I arrived at that conclusion.
If I were to develop such a system, it might have a master switch that could be placed in BYPASS or switched (locked?) into PROTECTED. Then one could choose when to bypass and when to assure protection, depending on circumstances.

Let me clarify: These kits do not bypass the safety interlocks in any safety sense -- FOR EXAMPLE if the tractor won't start because your PTO is engaged before the kit, it still will not after the kit is installed. That is because the TRIGGER signal to the factory solenoid is still used to trigger the new "bypass relay." It just takes way less oomph (voltage) to trigger the new bypass relay in the kit than it takes to trigger the original solenoid which after all is just a relay itself. That said, many hobby-minded tinkerers do all sorts of things ! Such as one attractive innovator in another TBN thread a few years back just took into account that no one really uses the tractor key as a secretive private special key (they are all the same) and so he just installed a big old START button that triggers the solenoid bypassing everything including all the safety stuff. In his innovation you hold the key in the start position and then hit the START button if the thing did not start as it should anyway. Many variations.