Nipping Dog

Dargo · Sep 19, 2008

I have trained many dogs over the years. My screen name is actually the name of my fully trained German Shepherd Dog. He is a solid 90 pounds and he runs an average of 40 to 50 miles a day, every day. He knows the difference between his right paw and his left paw. He can trail someone and, if ordered, attack anything he is told to attack. However, his training also had to include that each and every member of my family is higher up the pecking order in our family "pack" than he is. I have never ever put up with a dog that has been a biter or is even slightly aggressive towards kids; any kids. And, yes, I have pulled out my sidearm and killed my own dog on the spot when it turned and tried to attack a child visiting. That behavior is a death sentence to an animal in my book.

That being said, there is a lot of training that can be done so the dog knows and understands their position in the family pack. Once or twice the real Dargo decided to try me on when I needed to take something away from him. Several haymaker punches and 'take your head off' roundhouse kicks later proper pecking order was established and never forgotten. I personally have seen where people have allowed a larger dog establish dominance over them. That behavior is very difficult to vanquish, but it can be done with training aids such as a good quality training collar.

I've never had a real problem with smaller dogs biting. Even better, I've never ever gotten the least bit physical with smaller dogs. It seems as if they really want someone to be their pack leader and all you have to do is fill that role. That is where that Dog Whisperer guy excels. Being aggressive towards a small dog will only result in a frightened animal that will still bite because it is scared. They respond extremely well to positive reinforcement and rewards. Large dogs also exhibit the same personality, but they must understand that the owner is the leader of the pack as well as all other members of the household. As I said, I'm a huge dog lover, but no dog of mine will ever live to bite someone (especially a child) twice. A dog being on guard or patrol is different. Even then my GSD is trained to detain the person via intimidation only. If the intruder acts aggressive towards me or a family member, all bets are off then.

YanmarFever · Sep 21, 2008

tallyho8 said:
My method is probably not reccomended by your local humane society but it has worked for me in the past.

First you have to establish complete nce over the dog so that he will know for sure who is boss. One way I do this is to immediately act when he nips. I throw the dog on his back and sit on his chest (do not put all your weight on him, just enough to hold him down). I put my hands around his throat applying light pressure and use my arms to hold his front legs back from moving. At no time do I do anything to injure the dog but they will usually fight back violently trying to escape this position and I just restrain them completely holding them perfectly immobile. After a while the dog ceases to fight to escape and gives up, sorta like when the tv cowboy breaks a horse, and I just remain there for a few more minutes before I let him up. The dog will usually go sheepishly on his way and you will usually not have to repeat this procedure.

If it's a large dog, you may want to keep his claws filed well so that you don't get scratched up when you start this encounter.

Don't try this with a dog that you are not able to physically restrain safely for your protection.

I used to train dobermans back in the 70s.
I had to use this method you described on almost all of them, and it worked 99% of the time.

I had 1 dog that was trained with hand signals and low chirps that I made.
He was almost as good as a gun (not quite)
He was trained to clear a house for burglars or any human in there.
And he could be turned on or off like a light switch.

Its to bad they have such short lives

Sigarms · Sep 21, 2008

Dargo said:
And, yes, I have pulled out my sidearm and killed my own dog on the spot when it turned and tried to attack a child visiting. That behavior is a death sentence to an animal in my book.

With all the training you do with dogs, can I ask why did your dog try to attack a visiting child?

We've had a good amount of dogs (well over my age

) though our house over the years that we've taken in through the local humane society to "foster", that we've integrated with our family to find them (animals) better homes, and not once have had a problem with a dog attacking a person visiting our home.

ragkar · Sep 21, 2008

Once, when I was twelve I was teasing my dog who was about a year old. I'll admit it, I was teasing him and he was grumpy and crotchety so he took lost his temper and took a bite at me. Now I knew my dog and I knew that it wasn't a playful bite or a warning bite, it was a bite meant to hurt.
When I realized this I grabbed him by the side legs and flipped him on his back.Then I held him upside down on the ground with one hand holding the hind legs and the other on his chest. Oh did he get mad then. The air turned blue with dog curses. But what could he do? I out weighed him four to one and had hands.
I held him there for about a minute or more until he calmed down. I think he realized that I was capable of holding him all afternoon.
Then I moved my hand up to his throat, so he couldn't lurch upwards, and bending over looked him right in the eyes and told him real mean, 'Don't you ever lose your temper with me again'.
Then I let him go without hitting him.
I think that I impressed him because though he lived twelve more years, he never lost his temper with me again.

Dargo · Sep 21, 2008

Sigarms said:
With all the training you do with dogs, can I ask why did your dog try to attack a visiting child?

We've had a good amount of dogs (well over my age) though our house over the years that we've taken in through the local humane society to "foster", that we've integrated with our family to find them (animals) better homes, and not once have had a problem with a dog attacking a person visiting our home.

Sure, fair question. It was a rescue dog that, in my opinion, had been mistreated previously. It was the most difficult dog I ever trained to get it to understand that it was not going to be the alpha male in our 'clan'. Unfortunately, even though it finally understood most of that concept, it still was unstable in understanding that under no circumstances was it to exhibit aggressive behavior towards others; especially in the presence of anyone in my family. It growled and snapped at a 10 year old girl (fortunately only catching pants) and then turned and growled, showing it's teeth, at me when I very sternly ordered "NO".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I will not harbor a dog like that. In my book, any human is a million times more valuable than a dog. Yes, I love dogs dearly, but there are dogs and there are humans. Heck, I am accused of treating my dogs as well as my kids by many. Still, to attack a human (especially a child) without any reason is not acceptable to me. Even my dog that is trained to guard is very good at only detaining a person and making them fear an attack. In the worn out old used padded suit I used for his training, he only 'attacked' the person he was detaining when that person became aggressive towards him. As much as I care for that dog, I would have to put him down on the spot if he ever attacked a child.

*edit*
If anyone has ever seen me wearing shorts (no, don't go there!

) would see that I have some brutal scars on my left calf. I was attacked by a large dog when I was not yet a teenager back in 1973. It broke both the fibula and tibia in that leg and cut all but one tendon going to my foot. I spent months in a wheelchair and missed gym class for two years. Other than the scars (which I really don't notice anymore) I suffered no permanent disability other than the loss of sensation all around that calf area. It was during the long years of physical therapy and recuperation that I became interested in training dogs to not do what that dog did to me.

Sigarms · Sep 21, 2008

ragkar said:
Once, when I was twelve I was teasing my dog who was about a year old. I'll admit it, I was teasing him and he was grumpy and crotchety so he took lost his temper and took a bite at me. Now I knew my dog and I knew that it wasn't a playful bite or a warning bite, it was a bite meant to hurt.
When I realized this I grabbed him by the side legs and flipped him on his back.Then I held him upside down on the ground with one hand holding the hind legs and the other on his chest. Oh did he get mad then. The air turned blue with dog curses. But what could he do? I out weighed him four to one and had hands.
I held him there for about a minute or more until he calmed down. I think he realized that I was capable of holding him all afternoon.
Then I moved my hand up to his throat, so he couldn't lurch upwards, and bending over looked him right in the eyes and told him real mean, 'Don't you ever lose your temper with me again'.
Then I let him go without hitting him.
I think that I impressed him because though he lived twelve more years, he never lost his temper with me again.

Kind of funny. If you were my son and I cuaght you teasing the dog, I'd kick your butt to show you why you shouldn't tease a dog

Sigarms · Sep 21, 2008

Dargo said:
Sure, fair question. It was a rescue dog that, in my opinion, had been mistreated previously. It was the most difficult dog I ever trained to get it to understand that it was not going to be the alpha male in our 'clan'. Unfortunately, even though it finally understood most of that concept, it still was unstable in understanding that under no circumstances was it to exhibit aggressive behavior towards others; especially in the presence of anyone in my family. It growled and snapped at a 10 year old girl (fortunately only catching pants) and then turned and growled, showing it's teeth, at me when I very sternly ordered "NO".

Maybe I'm wrong, but I will not harbor a dog like that. In my book, any human is a million times more valuable than a dog. Yes, I love dogs dearly, but there are dogs and there are humans. Heck, I am accused of treating my dogs as well as my kids by many. Still, to attack a human (especially a child) without any reason is not acceptable to me. Even my dog that is trained to guard is very good at only detaining a person and making them fear an attack. In the worn out old used padded suit I used for his training, he only 'attacked' the person he was detaining when that person became aggressive towards him. As much as I care for that dog, I would have to put him down on the spot if he ever attacked a child.

Shame, liked you mentioned, the dog most likely had a previous bad owner. Ever notice how some pets reflect their past enviroment?

Guess the hard part working with animals you're not familar with is they can't talk.

We've been lucky, however we do use a temperment test for any dog that we bring in, and so far that test has been a good indicator of the dogs behavior towards people.

ragkar · Sep 21, 2008

If I were my father, I'd yell at twelve year old me for teasing the dog. But I learned too that dogs have feelings.
I still like to tease dogs, but it's not annoy tease now. It's curiosity tease like making strange noises or playing strange games. Did you ever play 'the invisible dog' game?
Did you ever play hide and seek? Go to the far end of the house and cover yourself with a blanket except for a peep hole. Then say the dog's name once. Wait a half minute and say it again. He'll come look around, get discouraged and go back where he was resting. The next time he'll come faster but won't find you because dog's have no imagination and can't discover you under a blanket. Gradually he'll home in on you and the blanket and finally spot your peep hole. Joyful reunion ensues.

Dargo · Sep 21, 2008

Sigarms, it appears as if we both have a big affinity for dogs and finely made German firearms.

I just added a Steyr AUG A1 to my collection. I mean, c'mon, I couldn't have only a Sig 556 be my only German made firearm that fires the 5.56 NATO round, could I?!