Newbie with 18 Acres - Trees ripped out...now what?

[stuckmotor]

If you try the disc and chisel plow on an acre now and wait a year then try the same operation with an unplowed acre, I think you'll find the roots have softened considerably.

 

[jeff9366]

The Perfect is often the enemy of the Good.

And in this post, none of us know EXACTLY the OP's situation.

Be positive. It may take the OP more than one season to improve his land but he is developing a 'Good' plan.

Plans usually evolve as they are implemented.

 

[MMagis]

You said a disc would do a better job in a fraction of the time it would take the tiller (more or less not your exact words). Guess it depends on what the fraction is? A disc may be 10% faster but that is about it.

I guess that hasn't been my experience. Tilling is usually a couple mph's, a good field cultivator or disc is closer to 10 mph.

 

[jenkinsph]

I guess that hasn't been my experience. Tilling is usually a couple mph's, a good field cultivator or disc is closer to 10 mph.

I can pull a disc about 5 mph and tiller about 2 mph using typical 50 to 75 hp tractors. I agree the ground speed will be much faster with the disc. The tiller at the slower pace is mixing more as it passes over the ground. By the time you make multiple passes with the disc the end result is close and there isn't a huge difference in the time or fuel spent.

For the typical TBN owner with a medium sized compact tractor a tiller can be a good choice. They are compact and easy to store. Since the pto driven tines push the tractor forward very little traction is needed to make them work. Most of these smaller tillers can work about six to eight inches deep. With a hydrostatic transmission and 40 hp this can get most of the typical owners work done. With the draft load reduced replaced by a pto loading it is a better option for hst designs. The same tractor can still handle mowing tasks without filled tires which is the more popular task in the majority of cases.

When you look at much larger tractors and commercial operations the specialized needs drive the implement selection. A large offset disc with 32" pans can really break up the ground fast if you have enough tractor to pull it. A large commercial tiller can also break up the ground up to 14 inches deep and still roll out plastic for a seedbed at the same time. There is no best tool it depends on what you need to do.

All of that said a disc is a good choice for most applications and I have many hours in the seat pulling them. Matching either a disc or tiller to the tractor to get the best results is very important.

 

[leonz]

Soils with heavy coloidal black or grey clays need
gypsum and soil ammendments like lime, gypsum
and compost.

In the agricultural enterprise large volumes of
compost are not possible unless the crop residue
"if available" is allowed to rot on the surface before
it is incorporated in the soil.

OR

It is collected at harvest with a flail chopper
and blown into a silage wagon and then taken
to an area where a composting operation is set
up where in a compost turner is used to
create compost from all sorts of vegetable matter.

The problem with creating compost with crop residue is
time and money. they are and have been doing this in
Europe and adding benefits back to the soils.

They are also doing this in the sugar beet growing regions
where they are taking the limestone sludge and spreading
it on the fields rather than taking it to a landfill as it is still
of great value to the soils.


The problem is we dont know more about his soil as it
may be a caliche soil with calcium carbonate that needs to be
tested, ammended and then improved.

If none of this is done the work he wishes to do will be nothing
but a waste of his time and money.

Soils that are irrigated will gradually turn to caliche type soils which
are mostly calcium carbonate.

He may have caliche soil and neither know that or understand it and
what is needed which is heavy work and tillage to break up the caliche soil.


A soil test is the quickest way to determine what is needed first and foremost.

 

[noobfarmer]

Well, it sounds like doing some soil testing needs to be step #1. My plan is to take 1 sample from each of the 18 acres. Then I can figure out what fertilizer and amendments are needed.

Attached is a soil test I had done before I bought the property. It's only one sample. But, as the land if fairly consistent in physical features, I suspect the sample is fairly representative throughout (+/-15%).

I believe it's black clay. Very dark. Doesn't look like the gray stuff you buy at the craft store. This property is about 100 yards from a lake shore. Water table is about 2-3 feet down.

 

[jeff9366]

Your organic matter tests @ 17.3 %; very high, very good.

Normal organic content is 2% - 3%, over 5% organic is very good; you have 17.3%!

Your pasture crop should thrive with some nitrogen and potassium.

 

[leonz]

I am glad you had a soil test done.

Depending on the slope of the property you should look at hiring a levee plow or buying a used whirlwind plow to raise the soil bed up higher if your going to do it all yourself.

The reason I mentioned this simply because the soil and gypsum is going to wash out if it gets rained on before you plow the gypsum under.

A sure stand grass seed drill like a Brillion sure stand grass seeder is best for this as it plants and presses the seed into the seedbed in one pass after the ground is plowed and disc harrowed.

If you can find someone with a standard rigid sub soiler to open the ground up the first year that will save you some work as any rain can drain into the hard pan layer before you spread the gypsum and plow it under.

Just be sure to run the sub soiler parallel to the lake shore to hold the water that may come as rain if you go that route.

Its going to take several years to bring that sod(what passes for sod) around for your desired purposes.






It looks like you need at least one ton per acre of gypsum plowed under
before you go any further.

If at all possible buy the deep mined gypsum as the chemically rendered gypsum will cost more per ton and may not be available in bulk.

If you do not plow the gypsum under you risk having it blown away.

At least after you have it plowed under it will not go to waste on you and
it will begin dissolving the clay.

I would check with the local cooperative/feed store and ask about spreading rates and having some gypsum spread on your property.

The amount you need is close enough to a trailer load of 22 tons that you can save money buying a TT load and spreading slightly more than a ton per acre on on before plowing.

Its better to hire it all done and then just go from there as far as selling good hay to make the land pay for the work.

 

[K Arno]

Try talking to these folks as well https://extension.usu.edu/yardandgarden/

 

[cat fever]

Well, it sounds like doing some soil testing needs to be step #1. My plan is to take 1 sample from each of the 18 acres. Then I can figure out what fertilizer and amendments are needed.

Attached is a soil test I had done before I bought the property. It's only one sample. But, as the land if fairly consistent in physical features, I suspect the sample is fairly representative throughout (+/-15%).

I believe it's black clay. Very dark. Doesn't look like the gray stuff you buy at the craft store. This property is about 100 yards from a lake shore. Water table is about 2-3 feet down.

View attachment 456674

Welcome to the forum; I am familiar with where you live. I'm just around the mountain in Erda.

There is an IFA close to your place. Give them the results of the soil test and they will mix up the right fertilizer in a trailer you can pull right into the field. I'll admit I have not used it yet. One of the IFA executives lives by me and told me about it. I'll be using it next month if the snow melts.
Good luck.