Newbie & General Tractor Questions

[SManZ350]

Good morning! I've been reading through this forum and watching informative videos on YouTube. We are looking at moving and the properties that we are focused on are 5-17ac, mostly wooded, slopes up to 30% / 3:1, minimal lawn area around the house. We are factoring equipment to maintain the property into our overall budget. We have Kubota, Yanmar, Deere, New Holland, Mahindra, and Kioti dealers all less than an hour from us. I have some experience running rubber tire loaders and skid steers at work.

I still have some questions that I can't find the answers to.

The Messick's videos have been helpful and come off as unbiased. Are they a good source of info for a new buyer?
Videos and articles like this one are steering me away from Mahindra. Same with various YouTube videos of people with electrical problems. But users seem to like them on this forum.
[edit, I can't post links yet. There is a Messicks video comparing the Kubota L3301 to a Mahindra 1533]

I am considering a backhoe attachment with the tractor. The lady would really like a pond. If the property has natural drainageways that could be diverted into a pond I think this would be possible. With the right size lot I would also like to cut in a dirtbike/ATV trail. I don't think a hoe would be necessary until the trail cuts across a slope and the path has to be dug into the slope for a more level surface. I've also been bent over a barrel to have a well pump replaced and thought that a hoe and a well-pipe clamp would be a good (but slow) way to be able to pull the pump myself. I expect I could do the same with the loader end.

Anyways, I have seen videos on how the backhoes attach/detach to the subframe. What I haven't been able to find is what would need to be done to replace the backhoe with a 3-point attachment, say a box blade. Does the hardware to accept a 3-point attachment stay on the tractor when a backhoe is used or is there going to be a good bit of work to swap between the two? I've been looking mostly at the Kubota L25/33/3901.

Will mowing with a compact tractor over a drain field damage the lines?

When you order tractor attachments online (say Titan/palletforks(dot)com), do they come on a pallet?

I do all my own vehicle maintenance, except for truck tire changes and the obnoxious state inspections. I've read through the PM schedule for Kubota L series and general maintenance doesn't seem too bad for the end user, but I keep seeing recommendations to consider dealer support when purchasing. Aside from warranty and major issues, what kinds of common things might I need dealer support for? I currently have a compact pickup and would plan on renting a HD pickup for getting a tractor home after purchase. If I should expect to have to tow it back and forth to the dealer for service quite often I'll need to factor this in too.

Thank you!

 

[tradosaurus]

My property sounds similar to yours except I have 42 acres of woods and about 2 1/2 acres to mow (which I do with a zero turn).

I thought about a backhoe but at $8k add on I decided if I ever needed on I would rent one for the weekend from the local Kubota dealer.

I really tried hard to justify a large cabbed tractor because my testosterone, but because of work in and out of trees I settled on a L3301 Kubota. I did buy a grapple and a larger rotary cutter (which is why I went with the L3301 instead of the L2501).

I think I could have been fine with the size of the L4701 (or MX equivalent).

Definitely go sit on tractors, start them up and throttle them wide open to check the noise and vibration.

I also used Messicks to make my decision although having a local Kubota dealer helps. I would have looked at Branson if I had one within an hour drive.

 

[TheMadOne]

First rule of tractors. They shrink. Just something to keep in mind.

The L3301 is overpowered for its weight. You will break traction before you lug out. The L3901 is worse, or better if you primarily have PTO tasks.

I live on the side of a valley. I found the limit to what I could do with the L3301 was pucker factor, rather than HP limit. Get wheel spacers.

 

[CobyRupert]

Once you take off backhoe, don't you just put 3pth lift arms and upper links on (assuming they have to be off for backhoe) and you're good to go? I can't see it being a big deal.
I don't remember the pallet forks (and their mounting frame that attaches to FEL) coming on a pallet. Most attachments didn't, but my skidding winch did. Results may vary.

 

[nybirdman]

First Welcome to the forum.I have found Messick's video's to be good,fair and honest.You are fortunate to have many brands to chose from.We run Kubota's and have had great luck with them;I would look hard at Yanmar's if they we available.
If I were to have a pond dug I would hire an excavator;much quicker.Back-hoes are a huge expense for limited use.A well pump(once in twenty year job) can easily be done with the FEL and a pipe clamp.
For a life-time purchase I would go with 35-40 H.P.,4WD and 3,000lb tractor,FEL with SSQA and possible third function if you think a snow-plow or grapple is in the future.

 

[jeff9366]

SManZ350

I have questions I can't find the answers to:

The Messick's videos have been helpful and come off as unbiased. Are they a good source of info for a new buyer?

YES. I post LINKS to Messick's videos daily.
But keep in mind Neal Messick is selling tractors for Messick's and Messick's did not achieve five multi-brand tractor stores by not being focused on Messick's brands which DO NOT include Mahindra nor Deere.


Videos and articles like this one are steering me away from Mahindra. But users seem to like them on this forum.

Tractor weight is a key tractor metric. India manufactured Mahindra's, mostly the larger models, frequently are the cheapest tractor per pound of bare tractor weight. Mahindras are, perhaps, a little crude relative to Kubotas but, hey, we are discussing dirt moving tractors. There is a fair segment of tractor shoppers who have LOW TECH, OLD SCHOOL as a purchase priority. India Mahindras are certainly Old School.

Low tech? Not me.

I have a Kubota 'Grand L'. I love the obvious care in manufacture and all the electronics, especially the HST/PLUS electronics augmented transmission and was happy to pay Kubota's price. L3560 is my third tractor, second new Kubota.

Kubota enjoys 50% market share in USA compact tractor sales. Deere enjoys 20% of same. All other tractor brands compete for remaining 30% market share in USA compact tractor sales. Good reasons for this. For Kubota '0%' financing and KTAC insurance deserve careful consideration.

Lots of choices out there. Consider Kioti, LS, Branson/TYM/small (TYM built) Mahindras. All three manufacturers in Korea.

Same with various YouTube videos of people with electrical problems. (??)




I am considering a backhoe attachment with the tractor. The lady would really like a pond with a gazebo on an island and a pair of mated Swans. If the property has natural drainageways that could be diverted into a pond I think this would be possible.

Tractors need firm ground or wood mats under the wheels or they mire. Backhoe on a tractor has no reach. Pond excavation is usually best with a tracked Excavator with a long-reach bucket. Excavators rotate 360 degrees so able to deposit pond spoil posotioned to create berm with only infrequent moves.
VIDEO: pond digging with excavator - YouTube


If you have a really dry period it is possible to excavate a pond with a tractor. A heavy Box Blade will be more useful than a tractor Backhoe. Keep a supply of wood mats handy should tractor begin to mire.
VIDEO: TRACTOR BOX BLADE POND - YouTube


With the right size lot I would also like to cut in a dirtbike/ATV trail. I don't think a hoe would be necessary until the trail cuts across a slope and the path has to be dug into the slope for a more level surface.

I recommend a Three Point Hitch Subsoiler or a Middlebuster to loosen dirt, Subsoiler for tough soil, and a bucket equipped with a Piranha (brand) Toothbar or Three Point Hitch Box Blade for transporting LOOSENED dirt.
VIDEOS: tractor subsoiler - YouTube
tractor middle buster - YouTube


I've also been bent over a barrel to have a well pump replaced and thought that a hoe and a well-pipe clamp would be a good (but slow) way to be able to pull the pump myself. I expect I could do the same with the loader end.

I have pulled casing and pumps with 1/4" Grade 70 chain secured to bucket with 5/16" Chain Grab Hooks. Works fine for me. (Small link chain grips smooth surfaces, large link chain slips.) Wells are shallow where I live in Florida.
TOP QUALITY VENDER: Ken's Bolt on Grab Hooks <<Bolt-On>>

Anyways, I have seen videos on how the backhoes attach/detach to the subframe. What I haven't been able to find is what would need to be done to replace the backhoe with a 3-point attachment, say a box blade. Does the hardware to accept a 3-point attachment stay on the tractor when a backhoe is used or is there going to be a good bit of work to swap between the two? I've been looking mostly at the Kubota L25/33/3901.

With contemporary tractors swapping Backhoe for Three Point Hitch components is relatively smooth, if sweaty, process. Perhaps thirty minute evolution after a little practice. However, most with Backhoes remove them only once or twice.

Older tractor Backhoes were more difficult to remove/replace.

For most, not all, tractor shoppers I feel $7,000 to $8,000 for a Backhoe is better spent on more tractor weight and suitable heavy Three Point Hitch implements.


Will mowing with a compact tractor over a drain field damage the lines?

Probably not. Depends on tractor weight, tractor tires, operator prudence, soil type, soil moisture, etc.


When you order tractor attachments online (say Titan/palletforks(dot)com), do they come on a pallet?

YES/SHRINK WRAPPED. Implements typically change trailers several times at freight depots before reaching final destination. Without pallets for protection few implements would arrive undamaged.

With Bucket Hooks and chains you can unload some implements up to 500 pounds. I always tip drivers delivering implements $20.
PHOTOS. NOTE 600 POUND COUNTERBALANCE.

I do my own vehicle maintenance. I've read through the PM schedule for Kubota L series and general maintenance doesn't seem too bad for the end user, but I keep seeing recommendations to consider dealer support when purchasing. Aside from warranty and major issues, what kinds of common things might I need dealer support for?

Tips on how to mount implements relatively easily and how to adjust same. There are two adjustments built into the Three Point Hitch, the Top Link and the right, threaded Lifting Rod. These two fixtures adjust most implements for use. Some implements have additional adjustments built into the implement, but not many.

I have a compact pickup and would plan on renting a HD pickup for getting a tractor home after purchase. If I should expect to have to tow it back and forth to the dealer for service quite often I'll need to factor this in too.

Free delivery out to fifty miles should be a "gimme" as part of a new tractor purchase.

Dealers have HD trucks, HD trailers and INSURANCE for equipment transportation. Let the dealer move your tractor.

 

[ericm979]

How much of the 3pt linkage you need to remove to put the backhoe on depends on the subframe system that the manufacturer uses.
For example Branson's subframe requires the 3pt lower links to be removed because the subframe hooks onto the same mounts on the axle.

I've watched the well service people pull our pump a couple times. They use a crane on their truck. I think it would be impossible to do with a backhoe or loader- the pipes are 21' long and no tractor backhoe or loader has that much reach. And it would be difficult to not bang the pipe on the casing while doing it.

You could maybe make a 3pt boom with a pulley and a winch to pull it but I don't know the weight of a string of pipe (or what the typical water level is in your area). A boom long enough is not going to have a lot of welght capacity. The ones the local well service companies use is far burlier than what you'd use for a CUT 3pt boom.

I just factor in a periodic pump or pipe replacement as part of the cost of living on a rural property, like having a generator and a chainsaw (and a tractor). We've had it pulled 3 times in 21 years. Our water is hard on metal so we have to replace parts more often than many people would. Our pump is 220ft down and it costs about $1000-1200 to get the pump replaced, including pump and any pipe that needs replacing.

You can cut a trail across a slope using a box blade, adjusted to tilt in the appropriate direction. But only if the slope is mild enough that it's safe to run the tractor across it, and the soil doesn't have big rocks that the box blade can't pull out.

 

[Tractorable]

Lots of Virginia folks in he house lately, we should have a tractor shopping party.

Messick’s is a great resource for learning. They’re up in Elizabethtown, PA and will deliver to VA if you buy from them. But we have good Kubota dealers around VA too.

 

[SManZ350]

This is all great information! Thank you!

@jeff9366, thanks to you especially for the time you put in to reply, and the edit to add more helpful information.

I especially liked the method of using a box blade like a miniature pan. The Piranha tooth bar you referred to covers the entire cutting edge; that is fantastic! After looking at the subsoiler and middle buster in action I understand their usefulness. It would be much easier to rip up a section and dig that out than try to scrape down inch by inch with the bucket.

It looks like after we get the property and get a better idea of the conditions we'll be working in I can start to narrow down what will be needed. Further down the line when we're closer to buying I'll want to stop by a dealer and ask them to show me with a particular model how the backhoe would swap with other attachments.

Most of the lots that we have visited have been well maintained and have little to no overgrowth between the mature hardwood trees. My understanding is that since most of what I would do is earthwork the L3901 would not benefit me over the L3301 unless I had to mow/bush hog a bunch? The only other PTO powered attachment I could forsee using is a post hole digger for a perimeter fence.

 

[SManZ350]

Lots of Virginia folks in he house lately, we should have a tractor shopping party.

Messick’s is a great resource for learning. They’re up in Elizabethtown, PA and will deliver to VA if you buy from them. But we have good Kubota dealers around VA too.

Marshall is one of the areas we are looking in. I love that town and the area around it. I should stop by Winchester Equipment Co in Bristow/Gainesville right next to where I am in Haymarket.