Newb looking for advice and info on a new compact tractor and attachments

[dustycoyote]

HI all,

I'm sure there have been 50,000 posts like this one posted over the years and just want to say thanks in advance to the community for being here to help people like me.

I'm about to purchase my first tractor and want to get some advice from those with knowledge/experience I don't have. I'll list out my situation and thoughts here as succinctly as I can, and then ask some questions. If there are things I should be considering or asking that I'm not, by all means, inform me.


I have a wooded property that we bought recently and need some equipment for various maintenance and improvements. We bought it purely as a recreational camping site for my family. No farming. No revenue will come from the tractor, so I am very sensitive to price. This is a spend on creating family experiences.

Mostly based on that cost sensitivity I've pretty much decided to go with an LS MT352. I was pretty shocked at how much better of a deal I can get it for than other comparable models from other vendors. TYM was pretty competitively priced with it, but I felt more comfortable with the LS for a lot fo reasons, not least of which because the dealer sells and services lots of LS's, but relatively few TYM's. I'd like thoughts of how appropriate this unit is for the situation I list out below.

The primary, and almost sole expected usage for the tractor will be earth moving. Part of the reason I was even able to afford the property is that it includes a large area that needs some serious cleanup and remediation. I will have to spend probably several years digging out a multi-acre area and removing earth from one area and using it to build up another.
My access to the land is over a 2 mile moutainous forest road that is only really an ATV trail right now. I will probably hire out for dozer work to do the initial road widening but will still need to do a lot of tractor work to clear areas, build good drainage, and maintain it over time. Several stretches of the road include pretty severe (to me) grades of up to around 20% that will need to be moderated and maintained so I can get a fifth wheel in to the property.

I will also be most likely putting in quite a bit of fencing ultimately. The land is pine and aspen forest covered everywhere except the areas that need the earth work. There are a few places where I will need to do some land clearing to add some roads and to make campsites. The property is moutainous so some of where I need to clear trails and work will be on hillsides.

I plan to buy a box blade for road maintenance as it seems to be the most versatile of the tools to shape and maintain a mountain road. I also will spend money to get forks as well as it just seems that everything I see online from tractor users kind of says that forks are just really super useful for a myriad of things.

Because of my usage needs, I figured it would be important to get a heavier frame compact tractor, but want it as small an overall size as possible in order to get into the trees as needed. I figured my priorities to be overall weight, frame strength, loader, and backhoe.

Because I'm a newb and will be using this for earth work primarily, I am planning to go with HST. Everything I read says this is what HST is designed for, I just need to get a powerful enough tractor to make up for any HST power loss (though I won't be using the PTO much really...)

I have a lot of deadfall so I think I'll use the forks at first but likely end up with a grapple over time, so I'll get a third function, or will get additional remotes on the back that I can run hoses from.

The land is pretty remote, with no structures or anywhere to take breaks, and a lot of the dirt I will be digging in will be dry and super dusty, so I am planning to get a cab.


So my questions are;


Backhoe -

• LS specs their compact tractors with 2 levels of backhoe. a 2100 series, and a 3100 series. The 2100 series is a foot shorter and rated for about 2700lbs of breakout force. The 3100 is rated for about 1000 lbs more breakout force. The MT352 I'm looking at has a 2100 series backhoe installed. Since this is a tool I expect to use a lot, I told them I would only buy it if they swapped that out for the 3100 series, which they are doing for me.
• I'm concerned by one youtube guys experience with this backhoe though, where the owner had continual serious failures using this backhoe.
• For anyone who is not familiar, this backhoe is not made by LS. It is the same backhoe that is on Kioti's, and some others. and that is what confuses me. I haven't really read any bad reviews from Kioti owners or others. Definitely not the at the level of failures that this guy expereinced (like structural problems, etc.)
• Anyone have any experience with the LS/Kioti backhoes?

What attachments should I be thinking about? -

• I know I need the loader and backhoe. And am planning on box blade and forks. Are those the right attachments to be focusing on? should I be getting something different or additional?
• One thing I am concerned about is clearing brush and ground. There are some areas where I want to clear some brush and create a new road. Would I be able to do this with a loader and box blade? Do I need to be thinking about getting something else as well?

Where to buy attachments -

• My dealer offers box blades by Titan Implements, but it looks like that company has changed names and these are still labeled Titan. They also appear to be standard duty models. everything I've read makes me think that, for box blades, I need to buy as heavy duty as I can. So I think I'll pass on these. Also, generally I think it's a bad idea to buy things at dealers. Generally that's not where you find the best deals.
• I was looking at Everything Attachments, and Woods (just because I have read good things about these brands). The EA box seems well designed, and is a little cheaper than the Woods, but the side walls are half as think as the Woods. The Woods weighs 680lbs, while the EA unit only weighs 515lbs.
• Does anyone have experiene with these and give any advice?
• What other brands should I be considering? Am I thinking the right way on these in the first place? Could I go cheaper??

• Th backhoe comes with a 24" bucket, which seems really wide to me for that hoe. I am thinking I probably need to buy a 12" bucket as well.
  • am I thinking right on that?
  • where should I look for buckets?

How wide of a box blade should I get?

• The tractor is 64" wide, so I am thinking I would want the 65" or 66" blades. Should I be looking at 72" blades instead? I will want to use it to create some drainage ditches beside the road and I'm thinking it may be an advantage to have a wider one (but also may be a paing to manage??)

Should I get my tires filled with Beet juice? and what is a normal cost to get that done?

The tractor comes with 2 rear ports. It can accomodate up to three. Should I have the third rear port added?

• I am planning on installing a hydraulic top link on it, so that will leave 1 port. I am expecting to use that port for the backhoe.
• I also expect that adding a third function for the loader will be too much $$, so I woud like to just run some hoses up from a rear remote.
• This is where I want a little help because of my inexperience -- I think that, when I have the backhoe installed, I can just remove the hoses for the top link and free up that port. So I would be able to run the hoe and a loader third function at the same time. And if I am using the box blade, the hoe ports will be freed up to use for the top link. So that would mean that I only really need 2 ports.
• But the 2 current ports only give me one detent port. I expect that I want 2 detent ports, wouldn't I?

Trailering -

I am planning to buy a 16 foot dump trailer to transport the tractor. I don't want to go bigger than a 16 footer, but by my best estimates I am expecting that the backhoe will hang over the end of the trailer.

Anyone have any experience transporting with a dump trailer? Good idea or bad? Anything I need to think of before I drive to pick up the tractor with the trailer?




anything else here I'm not considering that I should be?

 

[Chevyguy0819]

As far as implements go woods may be more money but it is worth it. That tractor would handle a 72in box blade just fine.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

First thing, if you are actually going to be cleaning up - clearing vegetation, get the factory 3rd function for the loader. You will really appreciate it once you get the much needed grapple vs using a rear remote for the grapple.

Get the 3rd rear remote kit I don't know if I would want any of the 3 rear remotes to be detent type, but most definitly not 2 detent valves. Unless LS has spring return to center detent valves, I defiantly would not want more than one, and that would be to supply the backhoe. If they now offer a float featured rear remote valve, that is different, they did not use to.

If you are primarily doing dirt work, you are going to want a full top & tilt set for the 3pt hitch. You will need to be able to angle the grading implements to both the left & right sides. You do not want to be doing that manually for any length of time. Like more than once.

A 78" wide box blade around 1000lbs would be a good fit for your tractor.

I VERY HIGHLY recommend getting an 8' rear blade similar to this Land Pride unit.

A good rear blade will shape the ground much better, faster & easier than a good box blade.

I recommend that you get both, but these implements cost big money, so you might need to start with one and get more as funds become available.

Do not get any light weight grading implements, and I mean nothing under 700lbs. The heavier, the better they will work for you.

Depending on your grading needs such as how long the paths-roads will be, you may also consider a land plane grading scraper (LPGS) for maintaining your drives in the future. A land plane will cut general maintenance of the roads by half the time if not more.

That should get you started, I'm sure others have ideas that have worked well for them.

Do get the tires filled, all 4 if they will, I have all 4 filled both my 32hp and 75hp tractors, it has made a HUGE difference in the capabilities of the tractors.

Good luck.

 

[WVH1977]

I will have to spend probably several years digging out a multi-acre area and removing earth from one area and using it to build up another.

This sounds like a lot of heavy duty work. How much digging and earth moving? I would suggest a 4 in 1 bucket for assistance with earth moving to go along with the box blade. I would also suggest considering renting bigger construction equipment for the earth moving and doing the finish work with the tractor. Also, definitely get the tires filled or wheel weights.

 

[rScotty]

I was doing what you are doing for maybe 30 years. We (my wife, actually) finally got smart and bought a mid size Kubota TLB instead of one more wannabe dirtmoving tractor. The TLB is more heavy duty and purpose built in frame and transmission for loader, moving dirt and rocks, and backhoe work. It has a thumb!!

Tractors are general purpose but oriented to farming & 3pt work. TLBs are general purpose but more oriented to moving dirt around. Get what you need.

We now have an old inexpensive bulletproof 1960s vintage farm tractor for 3pt work, the admittedly expensive Kubota TLB for everything including firewood, and an older (7000 hrs?) commercial yellow backhoe which came here to retire. For the work it does around here here, it will probably never require much if anything for upkeep. And it came brought with it a cab, heat, and AC. Snow? Just lower the bucket and drive forward...

rScotty

 

[finn1]

I’m a broken record on this subject, but you seriously should look into a CTL, and, eventually, a mini excavator.

Compact tractors have their place, but you’re, in my opinion, describing work beyond their intended scope. They’re just too dainty.

 

[dustycoyote]

thanks to everyone for their input. and I'm sorry in advance for how much I'm posting here. I just really want to collect as much experienced info as I can on a major purchase and endeavor...

Responses and further questions to several points made and advice given above in multiple posts;

• I would liked to consider a purpose built TLB, or even a track loader with backhoe and grader attachments. I've looked into them but it all comes down to cost. I just can't afford what would be the optimal tools for what I need to do. I've got to do the best I can with what I can afford.
• The other option is renting the correct equipment as I need it.
  • This would be my preferred path as it would also save me from all of the maintenance and pains of ownership. But a couple of issues hold me back.
    • 1st - My land is quite a ways away from me and is fairly remote. When I go up there I generally will just have one day to travel there and get work done. Also, a lot of the time that I get to be up there isn't planned too far in advance. If I rely on renting I risk not having equipment available when I need to use it. And, The amount of time I would spend picking up the equipment, and then dropping it back off would probably take up half or more of the time I have it for.
    • 2nd - Because of my first issue I think that, besides being a huge pain in the butt, relying on renting I might find that, over the course of time, I would end up spending more on all the rentals than I would have spent on just getting the tractor and equipment in the first place.
    • Lastly - I know where I am right now financially and I can afford to buy this tractor. I don't know where I will be financially later and don't want to be in a bind when I can't afford the equipment to keep the work going.
• And, as kind of my best effort at a compromise here, remember that for the inital heavy lifting on the road work, I am planning to hire out to someone to do it with a dozer. I am hoping that leaves me with much more manageable tasks for the compact tractor.
• Though a remaining concern I have is that it will still likely leave me with a lot of trees, mostly aspen trees to tear out with my tractor backhoe....
• (and I think I forgot to mention, I am planning to add the mechanical thumb to the hoe. I think I need it for some of the stuff I need to do with the hoe.)

Third rear remote and third function for the loader (and 4 in 1 bucket);

• I'm not sure if LS offers spring loaded detent valves but I'm just going to expect you know more than I do on this. I am pretty sure I don't even fully understand what the detent does. Until I saw your response I assumed it could be used for float.
• I will consider doing the third function if those here think it will make that much difference. Since I am not planning to get a grapple right away, I believe that is something I can wait on and just have added later? Or is it better to do itnow??
• I'm assuming I need the 3rd function in order to run a 4 in 1 bucket? I'm not sure what that type of bucket does. How does it help? How expensive would it be to buy?
• When I was shopping other brands and I asked about adding a second or third rear remote, a couple dealers had quoted me 200-300.00 to add an extra remote. I was kind of shocked when I asked this LS dealer and they are quoting me 850.00 to add that third remote. Does that sound like an exhorbitant price? Can I get it cheaper somewhere else, or did I misunderstand the other dealers??

Box Blade, road work, rear hydraulics;

• The recommendations I am seeing here is for a wider and heavier box blade. Is there any concern about it being wider than the tractor? I'm assuming The extra size, and especially the extra weight, make the blade a better tool for grading and sloping a road, and especially for creating a drainage ditch along side the road, but are there downsides to the larger size? would I really want to go as wide as 78"?
• ChevyGuy recommended the Woods attachments in general. Any other recommendations? Or is Woods kind of the cream of the crop. And is it the right way to spend limited funds on going with the best and biggest there?
• And per the recomendation to also get the landpride grading blade and/or the land plane. I would love to but as you recognized in your response, these things cost a lot and I have limited funds, so I need to try to find the best inital tools I can afford and make do with what I've got till I can afford to add more tools.
  • Having said that, is the box blade the correct tool I should be focusing on at first? my reading led me to believe that it is the best general tool to start for a lot of the things I need to accomplish, though maybe not the best tool for any one of those tasks. Would you all recommend a different tool to focus on first for road grading and sloping, creating drainage, long term road surface maintenance (One of me biggest issues will be ruts that get created from drainage running straight down the road in the stretches of the road that run up a serious incline), clearing brush and ground cover and then grading for new roads, and for building up areas that have been dug out of a mountainside?
  • I had planned to get forks and thought I could use those as a poor mans grapple for a while, besides just using them for loading and unloading things from the trailer. Where MtviewRanch is so strongly recommending the grading blade, should I not buy forks and instead put that money toward saving for a grading blade?? (I'm assuming that the land plane is more of a convenience purchase and can wait..?)
• Top and Tilt Kit - I have seen those and think it would be super cool. I would really like to get this if I can make it work. My concerns would be;
  • first is cost. I had planned on doing the hydraulic top link because it is probably really easy to add the cylinder and just connect it to a rear port. I expect the hydraulic top link adds a ton of value for very little investment when using a rear blade.
    • If the top and tilt kit is only a few hundred dollars more, like it appears in the link you shared, I think it would be very worth it. It appears that installing it would be easy. Is that right or am I missing something?
  • Second concern is the backhoe. When I was considering a MF machine I read on their backhoe spec sheet that the backhoe mount can't be installed along with a top and tilt kit. I don't know why they said it isn't compatible, but I just assumed that it wouldn't becompatible with the mount for any manufacturers backhoes?? If so, that would kind of be a show stopper for me. I don't want to have to remove the backhoe mount every time I want to use the grading equipment...
  • I had just planned to get off the machine and adjust the tilt by hand when needed, but it sounds from your statement that it might be a lot more work than I am thinking it would be...
  • Any ideas on how to work out if I can fit a top and tilt with the backhoe mount? I'm just going to say now that my dealer won't know one way of the other. Maybe he can call LS and get that info??

And thanks for the advice on the tires. I had kind of thought that I should get them filled. the dealer I am buying the tractor at is not the closest to my land, but he is the guy that has a tractor in stock to buy. He doesn't carry a lot of parts inventory, or offer some of the services, like filling the tires, that I want, so i will wait and have it done by a tire shop closer to my land.

lastly, anyone have ideas on where I should go to purchase the smaller backhoe bucket? My dealer doesn't have any and would have to order them from LS. Are there better aftermarket places to look for one, or I just need to order from LS?

 

[K5lwq]

For implements you could buy some older used ones much cheaper than from EA or Woods. Around here, there is even a few guys that sell used equipment full time. There is not a lot to go wrong with a box blade or rear blade so buying used normally works out just fine.

Look around on Craigslist and Facebook Market place. You never know what you may find.

 

[m1garand762]

You will need a bigger trailer. 16 foot will be tight. It’s more than just drive it on and chain it down. If the load is not properly balanced towing can be a nightmare

 

[Chevyguy0819]

I know the Kioti backhoes have the option for a hydraulic thumb so I would assume that ls does too. That is something I would not go without.

K5lwg mentioned used implements and I agree. The only new implement I own is a bushhog, everything else is at least 10 years old and generally works fine.

I have done a lot of earthmoving with tractors and while it’s not ideal it can be done. I had both a rear blade and a box blade and decided to sell the rear blade because I didn’t use it anymore. I think that the box blade would work fine for what your doing.