Rebel
Silver Member
carolyn meloni said:
202 (Fahrenheit) is not overheating IMHO.
new tractor not working
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202 (Fahrenheit) is not overheating IMHO.
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carolyn meloni
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Well they told me that is too hot for that engine-----------I honestly do not know.
RoyJackson
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carolyn meloni said:
I don't know either...but it seems Kubota thought so since they're replacing the radiator.
Carolyn, when the tractor is returned, open the hood and look over the radiator area. You should be able to tell if it is, in fact, a new radiator.
Good luck to you!
WayneB
Elite Member
carolyn meloni said:
I am not sure what state you reside in, but would suggest that you start writing down everything that has taken place with the purchase. Also get the names of the people you speak with so it isn't a situation of you saying "they" said, but rather "JIM" said.
Every state has Lemon Laws so find out what your state law is. I wuld think that if they have made many changes and still have a problem with a brand new item then you have a case to either get your money back or a replacement.
Just my two cents...............
Berniep
Platinum Member
In my opinion, EXCEPT for the remark about not using the tractor when it's hot out
(that was a really stupid thing to say) I would say the dealer is doing everything they should. These are mechanical devices, things go wrong and sometimes are wrong from the factory. They replaced the the thing that was most likely to be the problem. They sound to me like they are trying to make it right. Now if it overheats again and they say that there is nothing that they can do, THEN is the time to get upset. Now don't get me wrong I would be aggravated that my new tractor is in the shop three times so soon, but while one mechanic was busy running his/her mouth to you it sounds like another might have been trying to figure out your problem.
I hope they get your problem fixed and that is the last one you have with your new tractor.
P.S. Do you live in a live volcano?
Because then it might get too hot out to mow.
(that was a really stupid thing to say) I would say the dealer is doing everything they should. These are mechanical devices, things go wrong and sometimes are wrong from the factory. They replaced the the thing that was most likely to be the problem. They sound to me like they are trying to make it right. Now if it overheats again and they say that there is nothing that they can do, THEN is the time to get upset. Now don't get me wrong I would be aggravated that my new tractor is in the shop three times so soon, but while one mechanic was busy running his/her mouth to you it sounds like another might have been trying to figure out your problem.
I hope they get your problem fixed and that is the last one you have with your new tractor.
P.S. Do you live in a live volcano?
Because then it might get too hot out to mow.
N80
Super Member
Is 202 overheating? I use my Kubota when the ambient temp is 100. Does another 100 degrees really mean overheating?
The temp guage on my tractor rarely climbs of the peg by more than a few mms even when it is 95 outside. Even when the radiator is clogged with dust on a hot day the temp guage doesn't get to halfway. (But that's when I stop and clean it out anyway. I know the temp guage says nothing about actual temp in degrees.
I do have an infrared thermometer. I'm curious about this. Where do you point it to determine engine temp? On the valve cover? At the block? Where on the block?
The temp guage on my tractor rarely climbs of the peg by more than a few mms even when it is 95 outside. Even when the radiator is clogged with dust on a hot day the temp guage doesn't get to halfway. (But that's when I stop and clean it out anyway. I know the temp guage says nothing about actual temp in degrees.
I do have an infrared thermometer. I'm curious about this. Where do you point it to determine engine temp? On the valve cover? At the block? Where on the block?
Lynkage
Silver Member
202 is not overheating IMO. If I am traveling up the mountain in my dump truck with a load my temps can get close to 230. Most new car thermostats do not even open until 190. I run my L48, KX161 and bobcat 863 in the heat all day and they all run around 190-200 average with it being about 95 outside but they do not run much cooler if it is 70 outside.
I would agree that the mech said a stupid thing but I would let him know very politely that you know 200 +- 10 is normal. Motor manufacturers do not make it that close in temps otherwise none of us would be able to use our tractors until winter.
Average overheating temps are around 250-260. Remember water must boil for overheating to take place and water boils at 212 sea level. and when it is in a contained system it can go higher before it boils.
It sounds to me that their is restrictions in the system somewhere.
Shane
I would agree that the mech said a stupid thing but I would let him know very politely that you know 200 +- 10 is normal. Motor manufacturers do not make it that close in temps otherwise none of us would be able to use our tractors until winter.
Average overheating temps are around 250-260. Remember water must boil for overheating to take place and water boils at 212 sea level. and when it is in a contained system it can go higher before it boils.
It sounds to me that their is restrictions in the system somewhere.
Shane
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carolyn meloni
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Everyone---the dealer is suppose to return my tractor on saturday. They say it is working but now wish to try it on my hills. I hope it works but I also hope that if there is a problem it shows up then.
Thnak-you
Carolyn
Thnak-you
Carolyn
RobJ
Elite Member
Not all thermostats open at 190. My L opens at 160. I bet most others do to. I fixed my overheating problem (a bad NEW thermostat), it stick on 160 all day. It did run up to 175 the other weekend when I was clearing those trails, there was some stuff on the screen. I got most of it off in the field and the temp immedialtly dropped back to 160. I used the compressor when I got back to the house.
Good Luck,
Rob
Good Luck,
Rob
Attachments
I wouldn't call 202 overheating. Remember with tighter emission standards being mandated by the feds, even on tractors, thermostat ratings and running temps are going up.
Cars used to come with 160-180 degree thermostats and now all of them have 192 or higher in them. They say it makes a more complete burn.
A lot of diesel truck owners have gone up to a 202 deg thermostat because supposedly that is the most efficient temperature for them to run at. I'm still debating that one but its not going to hurt it. Too cold certainly will though. I wouldn't recommend pulling hard on any engine untill it's at least up to 160. Back when tractors had shutters instead of thermostats it wasn't uncommon on the hard working ones to replace the rings after every season or two. My old farmall is a perfect example. I have a C model without a water pump or thermostat that never comes off the cold mark and I replaced the rings once a year for it's last owner. He worked the tar out of it. My super C has a water pump and thermostat (originally 165 degree but now 180) and I have only rebuilt it once so far. It has several thousand hours on it now.
I would be willing to bet you have a gauge problem. I was a Kubota mechanic for quite some time and we could have 20 of the exact same tractor on the lot but not a single one of them would have the same reading on the gauge as the next. With electronic clusters there is always a varience between different machines. Some say low some high and some just right. 202 with a digital thermometer anywhere on the engine block is definitly not bad. On the outlet end of the radiator it would be a problem but not on the block. Just for grins I went out and checked around my new tractor with the laser thermometer and the only place that was under 202 was near the injector pump and the water pump. Most of it was around 210 -220. The turbo was way higher than that on the turbine end and colder on the compressor end.
I think the mechanic was just having a bad day myself. I've operated tractors all the way down below zero, WAY below zero, and above 140 ambient temps and the only ones that truly overheat had a problem that was pretty obvious.
As for the hydraulic leaks that's pretty common. Within the first 10 hours on my new one (not a Kubota) I had to tighten a few hydraulic lines, both suction and discharge lines on the AC compressor, a power steering hose and a couple fittings on the Injector pump. It was a few ounces low on freon too. It took me about 30 minutes to tighten it all up and add some 134 to the system. The problem with that stuff is AC fittings especially, Hydraulics to a lesser extent, should be put together with lubricated O rings but they never are. Everything is assembled dry at the factory. I could not even begin to count the number of AC leaks I've fixed on new cars or compressors I've had to rebuild or rack and pinions I've had to reseal. I used to really hate that stuff. Warranty work doesn't pay for squat. That's why I don't work for dealerships anymore. I work for myself and only work on tractors or vehicles that are ones I like. Kubota has always been one of the best brands of tractors out there. They had by far the fewest problems of any brand I worked on when new but a few small leaks can probably be expected.
Cars used to come with 160-180 degree thermostats and now all of them have 192 or higher in them. They say it makes a more complete burn.
A lot of diesel truck owners have gone up to a 202 deg thermostat because supposedly that is the most efficient temperature for them to run at. I'm still debating that one but its not going to hurt it. Too cold certainly will though. I wouldn't recommend pulling hard on any engine untill it's at least up to 160. Back when tractors had shutters instead of thermostats it wasn't uncommon on the hard working ones to replace the rings after every season or two. My old farmall is a perfect example. I have a C model without a water pump or thermostat that never comes off the cold mark and I replaced the rings once a year for it's last owner. He worked the tar out of it. My super C has a water pump and thermostat (originally 165 degree but now 180) and I have only rebuilt it once so far. It has several thousand hours on it now.
I would be willing to bet you have a gauge problem. I was a Kubota mechanic for quite some time and we could have 20 of the exact same tractor on the lot but not a single one of them would have the same reading on the gauge as the next. With electronic clusters there is always a varience between different machines. Some say low some high and some just right. 202 with a digital thermometer anywhere on the engine block is definitly not bad. On the outlet end of the radiator it would be a problem but not on the block. Just for grins I went out and checked around my new tractor with the laser thermometer and the only place that was under 202 was near the injector pump and the water pump. Most of it was around 210 -220. The turbo was way higher than that on the turbine end and colder on the compressor end.
I think the mechanic was just having a bad day myself. I've operated tractors all the way down below zero, WAY below zero, and above 140 ambient temps and the only ones that truly overheat had a problem that was pretty obvious.
As for the hydraulic leaks that's pretty common. Within the first 10 hours on my new one (not a Kubota) I had to tighten a few hydraulic lines, both suction and discharge lines on the AC compressor, a power steering hose and a couple fittings on the Injector pump. It was a few ounces low on freon too. It took me about 30 minutes to tighten it all up and add some 134 to the system. The problem with that stuff is AC fittings especially, Hydraulics to a lesser extent, should be put together with lubricated O rings but they never are. Everything is assembled dry at the factory. I could not even begin to count the number of AC leaks I've fixed on new cars or compressors I've had to rebuild or rack and pinions I've had to reseal. I used to really hate that stuff. Warranty work doesn't pay for squat. That's why I don't work for dealerships anymore. I work for myself and only work on tractors or vehicles that are ones I like. Kubota has always been one of the best brands of tractors out there. They had by far the fewest problems of any brand I worked on when new but a few small leaks can probably be expected.
FrogLick
Silver Member
This is a great forum and you'll get good advice. In addition to talking to the dealership manager/owner and keeping a detailed service record (what, when, who), I'd also get on the Kubota website and email them just so they are in the loop and aware of any emerging product issues and/or dealership service problems. It appears to me that Kubota does listen to customer feedback and I suspect nothing gets a dealer's attention like a call from Kubota.
DiezNutz
Veteran Member
Good post. Just curious, at the time you took the readings with the laser, what did your gauge say? In my experience it would've been lower.WTA said:
See, when I first read that "they checked it with the infrared light", I thought that was kindof a load of crap. What are they comparing it against? Two problems with this:
(a) you can't actually read the temperature of the coolant running inside the system. The surrounding metal of the longblock is always going to be at a higher temp anyway.
(b) and if you could, coolant temperature is a gradient throughout the system, depends on where you measure it. If they weren't accurately capturing the same temperature where the sensor in the head sees, then it was kinda pointless anyway.
Carolyn never actually said what the tractor did when it "overheated". There would be no mistaking if it actually overheated. If the only thing was the gauge said it overheated, then you might just be right about that gauge - or even the sensor. 202 is definitely not overheating (unless it's Celsius
). Had they done some of the basic tests like I mentioned before - heck even just driven it around - they would've figured that out instead of just throwing parts at it. I don't (a) replace a T-stat until I test and determine the old one is bad, or (b) put a new T-stat in w/out testing it first. By all indications they're clueless.mrron_tx
New member
Carolyn: I have a b3030HSDC..and I live in East Texas and it gets hotter that the gates of heck here....Ihave never noticed my temp gauge very far from the cold...I have asked a lot of others around with Kubotas....no over heating!! I think You got a lemon. If they don't get it right....pursue the lemon law where You live
Mine was showing just below the middle of the gauge after it had warmed up all the way. Same spot as always. I think the manual said it had a 185 deg thermostat. I wasn't working it too hard. Just blading off the driveway about a half mile or so. This tractor doesn't care if it's pulling a 12 foot wide disc or putting across the yard. It always runs the gauge in the same place once the thermostat opens.
Oh, one last thing I thought of, Those small 3 bangers tend to run on the warm side unless you get a little RPM on them. I rebuilt several of the 3 cylinder diesels that were always lugging hard at low RPM's. Most of them beat the tar out of the bearings but several also pretty severely scorched the cylinders and pistons.
My grandfathers old Kubota burped some antifreeze once because he was running a 4 foot bushhog behind it through some blackberry briars but he was only running the engine at about 1200 RPM or so. You need some more RPM to make that coolant move enough to remove that kind of heat. I forget what model his was but it was one of the small 4 wheel drives with a 3 cylinder. Now another family member owns it and last I heard the engine was locked up from not being run and parked outside with all the rain going down the pipe. I'll be overhauling it soon I guess.
I only mention this RPM thing because many homeowners without much farm tractor experience tend to drive them like a car when they get one. It's a tractor so run it at the RPM best suited to the work it's doing. If it's PTO work run it up to the 540 mark on the tach. It won't hurt it. If you are using the drawbar or an implement on the hitch then get enough where the engine isn't hammering or smoking and can keep itself cool. That 540 mark on the tack is usually about ideal. I often go lower on mine but I have a good feel for what the engine is feeling.
Oh, one last thing I thought of, Those small 3 bangers tend to run on the warm side unless you get a little RPM on them. I rebuilt several of the 3 cylinder diesels that were always lugging hard at low RPM's. Most of them beat the tar out of the bearings but several also pretty severely scorched the cylinders and pistons.
My grandfathers old Kubota burped some antifreeze once because he was running a 4 foot bushhog behind it through some blackberry briars but he was only running the engine at about 1200 RPM or so. You need some more RPM to make that coolant move enough to remove that kind of heat. I forget what model his was but it was one of the small 4 wheel drives with a 3 cylinder. Now another family member owns it and last I heard the engine was locked up from not being run and parked outside with all the rain going down the pipe. I'll be overhauling it soon I guess.
I only mention this RPM thing because many homeowners without much farm tractor experience tend to drive them like a car when they get one. It's a tractor so run it at the RPM best suited to the work it's doing. If it's PTO work run it up to the 540 mark on the tach. It won't hurt it. If you are using the drawbar or an implement on the hitch then get enough where the engine isn't hammering or smoking and can keep itself cool. That 540 mark on the tack is usually about ideal. I often go lower on mine but I have a good feel for what the engine is feeling.
DiezNutz
Veteran Member
I hear ya... my gauge NEVER deviates off about 1/4-way from cold once the engine is warm, no matter what I'm doing or what the temp is outside. This consistency seems to be fairly common.
OP
carolyn meloni
New member
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I really want to thank everyone for all of the advice. You helped me in many ways.
My kubota is home now. One of the owners came by tonight with it. We mowed about 90 minutes. It seems to be working fine. So perhaps the new thermostat and radiator did the trick. It did not overheat and engine was quiet and no black smoke.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that all will contiue to work just fine.
The owner told me he just wants things to be right. He said call if there are any problems.
THanks
Carolyn
My kubota is home now. One of the owners came by tonight with it. We mowed about 90 minutes. It seems to be working fine. So perhaps the new thermostat and radiator did the trick. It did not overheat and engine was quiet and no black smoke.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that all will contiue to work just fine.
The owner told me he just wants things to be right. He said call if there are any problems.
THanks
Carolyn
texasjohn
Super Member
Glad it's working now.... if the prior problem did not reoccur in YOUR opinion after 90 minutes...and, you did not identify any additonal problems. I think it's fixed, whatever it was... and, you clearly have gotten the ear of your dealer since an owner personally showed up and spent a lot of time observing it doing your kind of work... now, if you have another problem, you know exactly who to start with in reporting it. It sounds like you are now getting the kind of service and attention that you deserve and expect.
Typically, problems with Kubota's are very few.
Typically, problems with Kubota's are very few.
DiezNutz
Veteran Member
That's great, you really can't ask for much more than that... the owner at least has the right mentality and seems like a good guy. Hope this is all's well that ends well for you. Best of luck from here on out.carolyn meloni said:
crazyal
Super Member
Carolyn. If it was my tractor I would try to get about 10 hours on it and then either myself or have someone (other than the dealer) change the engine oil. Save the oil, you can have a sample sent to an oil analisis lab. They will tell you things like if there is any antifreeze in the oil or if there is an unusual amount of wear to the bearings.
Although 202 doesn't sound hot enough to do damage I'm assuming they did it at the shop under controlled conditions, you could have done worse without knowing it. Plus depending on where they measured the temp it could have been higher. Even if they did measure on the correct place to measure paint could mask the real tempurature.
If the report is bad you can use it to get them to either do a full rebuild/ replace of the engine or a replacement of the tractor. After all unless you plan on selling the tractor before the warenttee runs out I would like to know no damage was done.
Although 202 doesn't sound hot enough to do damage I'm assuming they did it at the shop under controlled conditions, you could have done worse without knowing it. Plus depending on where they measured the temp it could have been higher. Even if they did measure on the correct place to measure paint could mask the real tempurature.
If the report is bad you can use it to get them to either do a full rebuild/ replace of the engine or a replacement of the tractor. After all unless you plan on selling the tractor before the warenttee runs out I would like to know no damage was done.
rdsaustintx
Veteran Member
Grass doesn't grow in places where it is "too hot to mow".
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