new tractor, i cleaned and now i have a bad leak

[coryip]

SEE PIC
got my tractor JD4200 HST 2 days ago and decided i would clean it up a bit. when we loaded it on the trailer i noticed it had a clump of grass around the mid PTO shaft. when i got home i removed the clump and the next day had a puddle under it. the trailer had no oil on it after the 3 hour trip home. i cleaned up some more around the shaft and now i have a drip every 3 seconds. i ordered the seal that can be seen in the pic today and should have it tomorrow. now i am wondering if i can remove the seal while its on the tractor or do i have to remove the whole mid PTO box. and how hard would either of these be. and if i cant fix it looks like i will loose all my fluid and if so how can i get it to the dealer without damaging something. PLEASE HELP cause im sure you all understand i am ready to play. this is my first tractor and i am not afraid to turn a wrench i just dont want to get in over my head. THANKS

 

[coryip]

Another Pic

 

[coryip]

One More

 

[Gator6x4]

From the photos it looks like a National seal. Most seals can be removed by drilling a hole in the metal rim and then screwing a dent puller in and then jerk the seal out. A cheap dent puller can be obtained from Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, Advance or Auto Zone. You said you had ordered the replacement look at it carefully and you should be able to determine if it can be removed. Be careful replacing the seal. They will damage easily. It looks like the electrical connection to the mid PTO is also unplugged. Does the PTO shaft have movement, up-down-sideways. If it does you will probably have to remove the assembly. Talk to the service manager at your local dealership. Most are friendly and will provided advise.

 

[JimR]

As mentioned above. The easiest way to remove this seal is with a dent puller. The holes should be punched thru with a sharp punch near the outer edges of the seal. Punching bulges the metal inward and gives more grabbing surface for the screws. You can also remove the seal by screwing in two screws, one on each side and using vise grips and a hammer to pop the seal out. Grab the screw with the pliers and hit it. Switch sides and do the same on the other side. Find something the diameter of the outside of the seal to install it. A short piece of PVC pipe might work out real well for this.

 

[coryip]

there looks to be no play in the shaft and in one of the pics you can still see some small pieces of the grass or what ever it was wrapped around the shaft. are mid PTOs supposed to have a cover on them when not using. on JDPARTS it shows some kind of cover that goes over the exposed shaft.

 

[beenthere]

Sorry to hear that you have a ripped out seal. There is a cover that slips on over the Mid PTO shaft, and it twists onto the two screws you have taken out to remove the seal retainer.

Not sure how you had grass wind around the shaft (maybe done before you bought the used 4200 - how many hours does it have on it?). The mid pto can be dis-engaged when you are just using the rear pto. There is a main lever to engage the pto train, which includes the clutch/brake system. Off of that main pto, there is a stub shaft that goes forward to the engage/disengage shift which engages the mid pto. That is why you cannot engage the mid pto until the rear pto is stopped. The mid pto is like a gear transmission - must be stopped to shift in and out of gear.

Sounds like you have good recommendations to remove the seal and install a new one. Hope this fixes the problem. There is about 7 gallons of transmission fluid that I would change (just so you know that it is done on a used tractor), and I would also change the transmission filter and clean the screen tube. If it has never been done, the screen may have a lot of filings from new mfg. (mine had a lot in my estimation when I changed at 50 hours, but there was still plenty of screen to catch more). The headache is to find a container to catch that much oil when you change. If you don't drain the tranny, you may get a continual flow of oil when the seal is removed (don't know that for sure). Maybe stand the tractor back on its rear end so the oil won't run out, and then you can stand up to do the work too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[coryip]

yes unfortunately i had not even used the tractor other than to load and unload before this happened, and the tractor has 198 hours on it. does anyone know if i will lose all fluid when the seal is removed. and i could lift the front some as long as it would be safe using car ramps. i have about an 8 quart can under it now for the past 3 hours and have already caught at least a quart. also when i get it fixed and filled up should i only use JD hy-gard or is there another alternative and what is the average cost of 5 gallons and the filter.

 

[Nasty135]

Coryip ,Just a suggestion do you have any dental type picks? b4 you go replacing gaskets,
which Will be a good fix for sure, you said you could see some grass wrapped around shaft
you could try to get it out very gently working around the shaft with a pick or tweezers
to grap the grass(or whatever foreign material) thats forcing your seal to open up,
But that's just the quick fix ,the seal may already be damaged enough to not seal
as good as it should ....OOH the joy of mechanical things! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gifAnd just got it too ,BUMMER
Well just fix it and press on as the saying goes! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gifgood luck

 

[beenthere]

I wouldn't cut any corners when it comes to replacing the oil, and would use the Deere oil. I don't recall the price, but it wasn't bad. But that is up to you, as it is your tractor.
Have you talked to the Deere dealer (assume that is where you bought it) about the problem? If you were not in grass, then it must have been there already, and the cover was not on the mid pto. If from an individual, I would talk to that person as well for the same reason. They have some responsibility, IMO.
I did find out that you cannot remove the mid pto unit (five bolts) without first pulling the rear pto cover off as it holds the drive shaft for the mid pto (and that entails draining the 7 gal of hyd. oil). And the gear on the forward end of that shaft may fall off and have to be retrieved from the differential housing (don't think this is difficult, but just so you know it may happen). Hope you can just pull the seal out and replace it. But as low as it is on the tranny, I suspect there is a lot of hyd. oil above that seal, and when it is out, there will be a lot of oil moving. But I don't know that from experience.

Wish you luck and a speedy recovery.