New shop comstruction opinions

[geneP]

I'm going to have a 30' x 40' metal shop built. I have prices on two types: full steel frame/sheeting and "chicken house" style with steel trusses and wood purlins/steel sheeting. I don't want a pole barn style for this building. It will be insulated with operable roof vents and two 10' roll-up doors on a 6" slab. I'm debating with myself about which construction will best meet my needs. I'm confident that the full steel will be stronger but I'll wire it, install shelving, etc, and the wood roof and side purlins are attractive to me for the ease of installing those items. I'm 70 years old, so either one will probably last as long as I need them.

I'm asking for opinions of those who have experience with these buildings. What suggestions and advice do you have? I don't want to make an expensive mistake that can be prevented at the beginning. I'm prepared for the extra expense of the full steel type, but am concerned about the issues of connecting to the interior steel.

There is a lot of experience on this site and would appreciate your heading me in the right direction

Thanks
Gene

 

[Zebrafive]

Why the 6" slab? I can see the need for a thicker perimeter since it's not pole barn construction, 4" should be enough for the rest of the floor.

 

[KennyG]

You didn't mention the height, but with 10 foot doors I assume it's 10 to 12 feet. If you don't want a pole barn, I'm not sure why you don't consider a full framed building with stud walls and wood trusses. I don't see much advantage to steel for any part of the frame of a building like this. If it was me, I'd definitely go with a pole barn. Once it's finished inside and out no one can tell what the frame is. What are the negatives to pole construction for you?

 

[geneP]

Why the 6" slab? I'll have the tractor in there with attachments mounted and the tractor alone is 5000 #. It's not a lot more for 6", relatively, and I would rather be safe.

The walls I have quotes for are 12' because the builder says he needs 21" above the opening to mount the door. I don't want a pole barn because of the wood in contact with the ground. I know it is treated, but it will eventually rot. I haven't priced a building with stud walls, but I do have prices on pole buildings and they are in line with the steel trusses/wood purlins. I also want the open space overhead that steel trusses give.

That's my thinking, but I'm asking you guys because maybe my thinking is flawed. If it makes any difference, the steel truss/wood purlin is about 25% more, but is 26 gauge steel vs 29 on the wood purlin building. I suspect that is because of the spacing of the steel purlins being farther apart.

 

[KennyG]

Maybe you've got some local issues but properly installed poles are essentially permanent around here. There are lot's of 50 year old pole barns and they don't have problems. That said, if you like the open overhead space, steel starts to make sense. 25% is still a lot of money but a little less than I would have guessed, so you may be onto a good deal. 6" on the slab will give you a little more margin, but make sure you have a good concrete guy who will take care to keep the reinforcement in the center of the slab. That's more important than the thickness. You might also look into fiberglas reinforcement and see if the local experience is good.

 

[boggen]

10 feet high doors. you might want higher and encourage higher doors. being 70 yrs old. you may want to buy a RV or 5th wheel trailer. and when not in use park it in the shed. not to mention some tractors 10 feet is not enough clearance to get them into the shed.

with your statement of insulating it, i am going to assume radiant heating. more so on top with your statement of 6" floors. to help deal with radiant tubing within the floors.

shelving.... i have had to deal with 4 feet wide 8 feet long shelves, that were pushed right up against walls before. then 4 feet wide 8 feet long shelves scooted out and away from walls so you can actually get in and around all sides and get to stuff. then shelving for hanging up tools something like a hardware store has tools hanging up. also shelving that has simply 45 degree angle braces on bottom of them that are just attached to the sides of beams.

to be honest. if i had a choice, i would most likely go with hard board insulation 4' x 8' sheets. just to help keep mice and bugs out of the stuff. vs rolled or blown in insulation, or sprayed in insulation. and if you need to cut some insulation out to run some lumber for shelving, a utility knife then a regular old kitchen steak or peering knife can finish the cuts out in hard board insulation. they also make a cheap "hot knife" kinda like a notarized knife for carving turkey or a ham. but it has a heating element in it. to make cut hard board insulation in those tight areas fairly easy.

pending on your actual spacing on a pole barn. and length of shelves. you will most likely need an extra leg up against a wall. perhaps 2.

i am not a big fan of 16" or 24" on center stud walls for a garage. if there is no internal paneling or plywood or like on the walls. my big beef is having to dust in between all the studs, and clean things up. if not you end up with "dust piles" from saw dusts, to grinding, to other. one of the sheds here, has 2x4's and some 2x6 walls, and rolled insulation in between the studs, and then hard board foil faced insulation as paneling. then foil tape over the seams of the hard board insulation. and then spray foam used to fill holes and cracks between metal sheeting on the outside and the frame work on the inside. so far has kept the critters and bugs out.

a cathedral ceiling, with no beams or anything going through center. vs regular old wood A framed rafters.

i would like a cathedral ceiling just so the lights i have up in ceiling do not end up casting shadows all over the place from regular rafters. but on other hand the old wood A framed rafters. is scattered with electrical wire. and makes for a nice place to run it all. vs trying to run everything around the sides of the building or trying to run wire right at the ceiling and taking stuff off of shelves when ever i want to add or change something.

===================
heating a 30 x40 building can be costly. perhaps just build a generic pole barn and then build a portion just as an actual shop area. to help reduce heating / cooling costs. have seen this more done than anything.

 

[jim_wilson]

I built a 28ft x 44ft stick framed "barn" a few years back to park cars, have a workshop, and use for storage.

I also went with a 6" slab on the premise that I wanted to have the ability to have HEAVY loads (like machine equipment) on the floor and not worry about cracks.

I also insulated under the floor with 2" thick pink foam - and applied a vapor barrier on top of that foam. I used the "Foamular" Owens-Corning foam that you typically find at Home Depot - but found out after doing some research that they make a heavier duty version than the typical HD stuff - that has a much higher PSF (pounds per square foot) rating than the HD stuff. The vapor barrier I used was an asphalt sheet type system that used a sealant and a tape to completely seal up all the gaps.

Then I put a 2x2 ft grid of rebar down - spaced up so it would end up in the middle of the 6" of concrete - and tubing for radiant floor heating was attached to the rebar. Then the floor was poured using the fiber reinforced concrete. The floor guys then cut the floor with crack mitigation cuts. I know there's sometimes a debate between a "smooth" floor and a "rough" floor - I went with smooth because I intend on painting this when I get a chance. I think smooth is easier to keep clean too.

The floor has been down for like 3 years now - and aside from one area - where honestly I sort of expected a crack anyway - there are absolutely no cracks in the floor - and the combination of the insulation and the vapor barrier seems to completely get rid of any issues that might have existed with moisure coming up thru the floor. In Mississippi you probably don't need the insulation - but you might think heavily about putting down a vapor barrier. Moisture coming up from the ground and coming thru the concrete is one of the main sources of moisture coming into a structure.

Fix that problem and your equipment will pay you back by staying in good condition a lot longer by not rusting out.

 

[jim_wilson]

Maybe you've got some local issues but properly installed poles are essentially permanent around here. There are lot's of 50 year old pole barns and they don't have problems. That said, if you like the open overhead space, steel starts to make sense. 25% is still a lot of money but a little less than I would have guessed, so you may be onto a good deal. 6" on the slab will give you a little more margin, but make sure you have a good concrete guy who will take care to keep the reinforcement in the center of the slab. That's more important than the thickness. You might also look into fiberglas reinforcement and see if the local experience is good.

When I put down the rebar grid for my floor - I got a bunch of the bricks made out of concrete - whacked them in half with a mason's chisel - and then laid the grid down using those as spacers to put the rebar up at a good height. The radiant tubes were zip-tied to the rebar - and that put the tubes at the recommended height inside the slab. If you're doing radiant tubes - they're not supposed to be sitting down at the bottom of the slab - neither is rebar reinforcement or the wire mesh.

Having a good concrete guy is crucial - some of them are hacks.

 

[KRBrouwer]

I'm going to have a 30' x 40' metal shop built. I have prices on two types: full steel frame/sheeting and "chicken house" style with steel trusses and wood purlins/steel sheeting. I don't want a pole barn style for this building. It will be insulated with operable roof vents and two 10' roll-up doors on a 6" slab. I'm debating with myself about which construction will best meet my needs. I'm confident that the full steel will be stronger but I'll wire it, install shelving, etc, and the wood roof and side purlins are attractive to me for the ease of installing those items. I'm 70 years old, so either one will probably last as long as I need them.

I'm asking for opinions of those who have experience with these buildings. What suggestions and advice do you have? I don't want to make an expensive mistake that can be prevented at the beginning. I'm prepared for the extra expense of the full steel type, but am concerned about the issues of connecting to the interior steel.

There is a lot of experience on this site and would appreciate your heading me in the right direction

Thanks
Gene

I have a 40' x 40' all steel with a 10' high door for the tractor and a 12' high door for the 5th wheel. The wall height is 14' and is open to the peak at about 25'. It's all open inside, which has allowed me to put in a 2nd floor in the rear. It also allows for "high rise" doors, which were an advantage for me, and less expensive. There is an aluminum "Z" shaped lip that rests on the outside edge of the concrete that the steel side panels rest on. No steel is in contact with the ground. It is insulated with 1.5" roll insulation, and I have never had any problems with condensation, even with our humidity levels in the summer. The heavier gauge steel is worth the extra $$. I would also recommend having a steel frame designed in at the peak for a ventilation fan. I did this when I had mine built in 1991, and it sure helps during our summers in North Carolina. The building still looks the same as when it was build.

 

[geneP]

No type of heat planned in this building. If needs change maybe a wood stove later on. Vapor barrier for sure. I'm also going to have installed a 10' long ridge vent that has a damper/door built in to open and close with the seasons. I'm starting to lean toward the all steel with heavier sheeting.