New Pond

   / New Pond #51  
I would hire for the rough cut. The amount of time to do on your own is OK but if you hit water early and keep getting stuck you will probably settle for a shallow pond that will only become a "frog pond". And, chances are that if you hit water early it will be in sand. Need the clay. Bluer the better. You won't be happy if you stock with fish and they freeze out or you loose them during a drought. I have a firend that put up a windmill and drive a well using a rope and pully at the top of the mill. He just lets the windmill keep the pond full..... Of course, if you hit an arteasan spring your problems are solved.... You could sell the water to the health nuts, buy a big cat and turn the whole property into a pond.
 
   / New Pond #53  
Bob,

A few thoughts on your pond questions, based on our experience with a new 3/4 ac., 12' deep pond which was put in two years ago to replace a smaller century-old livestock pond which was mucked in 'til it was only about 3' deep and had trees growing all over the dam. Having a bunch of water in the yard is a wonderful thing.

As far as engineers, etc. go, we had the good fortune to find a guy who had done about nothing but build ponds since he was 12 years old working for his uncle. Our county extension service representatives came out, met with him, looked at the test holes he dug with his 'hoe, and told me I didn't need any engineer because he knew what he was doing. He worked with no drawings and didn't even use a transit for the first 10 days. Where we are, no permits were required for pond construction; he just came out and got started.

What he did could no way be done with a compact tractor--or any other tractor--in a reasonable time. He used a trackhoe, a D9 dozer, and a sheepsfoot compactor. We are fortunate (as far as ponds go, anyway--not all good for gardens) to have dense clay soil, but he still went down to bedrock--through it by 10' for the dam--and then compacted a foot or two of clay at a time to build back up the sides of the pond. I gather you're thinking about a pond which is fed by the water table, which is a different animal from ours which is all rainwater. The place looked like a bomb went off for a few days, but the whole project, which included lowering the entire pond level by 10' and recontouring about 2 1/2 acres to provide optimal runoff, took 21 days.

I've read through these posts and everything Fishman said is consistent with what I've learned, including the part about grass carp (white Amur) NOT being a satisfactory antidote to algae; in fact, they don't seem to even touch it. They also will come out of the water onto shore--fact--to eat ornamental plants you've put near the water. I put in five 12" Amur based on what I think was a bogus recommendation and they are now more than double that size. They can grow to 60-80 lbs., and are about impossible to catch except bow hunting; not having a bow I'm currently trying to kill them with a .223 varmit gun. Copper sulfate works extremely well to control algae, but I use a pond-store product called Cutrine, another copper product which when diluted and sprayed on algae kills almost on contact without any adverse impact on the water quality, fish, etc. I guess it is "chemicals" in the sense that it is adding something to the water that isn't there, but it is not harmful to anything, so far as I know, but the algae. The only downside I've ever read or heard is that over many years the and/or the dead algae will build up on the bottom and adversely affect the dissolved oxygen levels in the pond.

We had a bad algae bloom last spring, I think in part because I made the mistake of fertilizing the grass in the watershed; of course a lot of that ran into the pond. We swim and boat in the pond and so algae control is pretty important to us. I do this with a bottom aerator which runs two hours morning and night, and with a waterfall. Last summer I added beneficial bacteria a few times, which you can read about Aquamats, which are an engineered fiber "reef." These things are expensive and I've put in half what they recommend but they do seem to be making a difference (and have a one-year money-back guarantee). I also don't hesitate to spray with Cutrine if there is a bloom I want to control in a hurry.

It all seems to be working. This spring we have enough algae on the margin to give the small fry a place to hide, but no nasty filamentous mat on the bottom (at least, not yet; it's still early) and nothing spreading out beyond the shore line.

Good luck!
 
   / New Pond #54  
Paulw and Rmorgan, thanks for the replies. Another question that has come up has to do with the dam overflow pipe.

The person who will be building my pond thinks there is some type of valve available that will go at the bottom of the overflow pipe that will enable you to drain the pond if it ever needs it. He remembers seeing one that had a lever running to the top of the overflow pipe that you could use to open the valve. He did not remember where he saw it, but suggested I research it. I have asked several people at places like Agri-Supply and no one has ever heard about a valve like this. Anyone know what type of valve this and what type of store might carry one?

Also, what type of pipe do most people use for the overflow pipe? Is it plastic (schedule 80 or metal)? I have had both recommended. Also, what size would you recommend, i.e., 4 or 6 inches, or larger?

Thanks.
 
   / New Pond #55  
Bob--

Never heard of the spill pipe drain valve thingamajig, and would think that if the pond builder doesn't know where to get it he doesn't think much of it. I know there is a way to put a valve through the dam at the bottom of the pond to facilitate fire protection if you are well away from hydrants, but that is unrelated to the spill pipe and relatively expensive. If we ever needed to drain the pond (perish the thought), I'd rent a Honda trash pump, fire it up, and either keep it running or let it siphon. Second, our overflow is a 6" PVC back about 10', then connected to flexible plastic drain pipe about 120' with a pretty good slope on it down through a hill; the outlet is probably 30' below grade. It does not go through the dam, but goes well off to the side so that there is no erosion on the side or bottom of the dam. The 6" is apparently well-suited to our 3/4-acre pond; the water has never crested the pipe, although it has gotten about 1/2 way up it and it took about a day to drain back down to the bottom of the pipe (i.e., the normal "full" level). The PVC is a little ugly, of course, but we're fixing that with plants.
 
   / New Pond #56  
Rick, the pond builder likes the valves, he just does not know where to get them any more. He used to know of a supply house that carried them, but they no longer do. No one there seems to know where they used to get the valves from.

In researching this some more, I see one mentioned on the Virginia Tech web site,
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/fisheries/420-011/figure1.html>http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/fisheries/420-011/figure1.html</A> however, have not found any links to suppliers. I'm about ready to give up on this and just install a standard overflow pipe.

Thanks to everyone who tried to help.
 
   / New Pond #57  
Thought I would throw my 2 cents in here. If your builder (and he probably already has) has not told you, you need to put a collar on your over flow tubes. Go to a machine shop or make one yourself. They should be about 3'x3' and fit snugly on your drain tube. The hydraulic pressure from water in your pond will force the water along the pipe and will cause your dam to fail. The collar will prevent this from happening. Try to use the thickest gauge metal, galvanized, as you can get, to prevent the collar from rusting out. Sorry to have rambled, no expert, but mr. Murphy has trained me well.
 
   / New Pond #58  
Harv,

What a nice pond you have! Looks like you have your own State Park!

On this website:

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.aces.edu/dept/extcomm/publications/anr/ANR-0577/anr577main.html>http://www.aces.edu/dept/extcomm/publications/anr/ANR-0577/anr577main.html</A>

some information is given on "pairing" fish. They recommend catfish and minnows or bass and bluegill.

I found the site to be one of the better sources on pond and fish management.

Buck
 
   / New Pond #59  
and are about impossible to catch except bow hunting; not having a bow I'm currently trying to kill them with a .223 varmit gun

Rick,

This sounds like a great afternoon sport.. Just had a laugh or two reading your post and shooting , very good and too the point.

I grew up in central Pa and ponds were built with some Fed $ for for fire prevention on the farm. I won't be making a pond here - would like to, but the rocks and ledge and seasonal flow make it near impossible to hold water.

Carl
 
   / New Pond #60  
<font color=blue>What a nice pond you have!</font color=blue>

Thanks, Buck. Attached is my current favorite picture of the place. One of those early morning take-your-breath-away scenes.
wink.gif


And thanks for that link, too. I'm compiling a bunch of information about how to get the most out of my pond, and that one helps a lot.
smile.gif
 

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