Vanisle1
New member
Just joined. Have a CK20 and have an issue with the engine stop solenoid. Hope to get some helpful info.
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- Thread starter Vanisle1
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When I turn the ignition key off, the timer relay buzzes but the engine shut off solenoid does not engage. I disconnect the wire to the solenoid and ran a jumper from the solenoid directly to the battery and the solenoid worked. I put my volt meter to the feed line to the solenoid and it registered 13 V (with the engine running). The timer relay did not buzz and the voltage dropped after a few seconds. I reconnected the solenoid to the line, turned the ignition on and off and the solenoid did not work, but the timer relay buzzed for a few seconds and shut off.
I am mystified, to say the least. What am I missing?
I am mystified, to say the least. What am I missing?
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
What year is your tractor (first few digits of serial number identify the year/model)? There were at least two versions of the stop solenoid; one applies power to turn the engine off, another applies power to allow the engine to run, and a variant applies a high current to actuate the solenoid (to let the engine run) and a lower current to hold it open. At first blush, it sounds like you have a relay problem. But it's best to pinpoint these things vs semi-random parts changing.
Last edited:
KD4IFF
New member
This is Kioti Tom on Ron's computer. I had a problem with the stop solenoid also. would not stop and would not let the engine start. Took the solenoid off and
I could start, and then stop the engine by sticking my finger in the solenoid opening and pushing the plate in the injector pump. Tried another solenoid and that
did not work. So, I carted it off to the dealers. They had the same problems as me. Finally they called Kioti and they returned the call the next day and to
replace the relay box that also operated some other items. Located up under the dash. That controlled the third wire to the solenoid plug and activated the
solenoid and held the pin in so the tractor could run. when released, the pin would push the plate I moved with my finger and shut the engine down. The
dealer replace the relay and reinstalled the original solenoid and no problems since.
good luck with your tractor.
Tom
I could start, and then stop the engine by sticking my finger in the solenoid opening and pushing the plate in the injector pump. Tried another solenoid and that
did not work. So, I carted it off to the dealers. They had the same problems as me. Finally they called Kioti and they returned the call the next day and to
replace the relay box that also operated some other items. Located up under the dash. That controlled the third wire to the solenoid plug and activated the
solenoid and held the pin in so the tractor could run. when released, the pin would push the plate I moved with my finger and shut the engine down. The
dealer replace the relay and reinstalled the original solenoid and no problems since.
good luck with your tractor.
Tom
murphy1244
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:welcome:
Scott - Not sure what numbers you're referring to, but the serial # begins with F196002. I purchased the tractor in May 07 so I'm assuming it is a 2006 model year. I have replaced the ignition switch as well as the timer relay. The solenoid is attached to the engine block and has a single wire leading to it. The plunger is normally in the 'out' position and when activated, it pulls in, shutting off the fuel. Also attached to the fuel shut off is a manual shut off cable attached to a pull knob below the dashboard. As I indicated in my earlier note, I disconnect the wire leading to the solenoid and "jumped" the solenoid directly to the battery - and it operated. I also tested the voltage at the wire connected to the solenoid and with the key in the off position, the meter read 0 volts. With the key in the on position with the engine running, the meter read 6 volts. With the key in the off position, the meter read 13.5 volts for about 5 seconds and then goes to 0 V. This suggests to me that the off position on the ignition is sending at least 12 volts to the connector. When it is connected, however, the solenoid does not operate, the engine continues to run, and the timer relay buzzes for a about 5 seconds and shuts off.
The tractor starts easily with or without the solenoid connected. I am able to shut the tractor off using the manual pull knob.
As I said earlier, I'm at a bit of a loss on this as I'm not sure if there is anything else between the timer relay and the solenoid that would affect the affect the operation of the solenoid itself when it is connected through to the ignition - given it operates when connected directly to the battery.
Any further insight would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Bruce
The tractor starts easily with or without the solenoid connected. I am able to shut the tractor off using the manual pull knob.
As I said earlier, I'm at a bit of a loss on this as I'm not sure if there is anything else between the timer relay and the solenoid that would affect the affect the operation of the solenoid itself when it is connected through to the ignition - given it operates when connected directly to the battery.
Any further insight would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Bruce
KD4IFF
New member
Ok, the tractor I have is a DS4510. The module is probably newer item from yours. Mine is a 2012 tractor. I don't have the manual shut off. The plug on the solenoid
is a 3 wire and is one power, one ground and the third is the one that activates the pin to hold it out. I wish I had my service manual. The wiring diagram would
probably have told me as to where to look. The Module that controls the solenoid is probably a different set up for you. If We could get a dealer on with the
service manual for your tractor with the wiring diagrams, he could probably locate the relay module and where it is. Sorry I could not help you further...
I need to get on the road and beat the weather home to Pittsburgh Pa area....
Almost forgot, :welcome: to TBN
Kioti Tom
is a 3 wire and is one power, one ground and the third is the one that activates the pin to hold it out. I wish I had my service manual. The wiring diagram would
probably have told me as to where to look. The Module that controls the solenoid is probably a different set up for you. If We could get a dealer on with the
service manual for your tractor with the wiring diagrams, he could probably locate the relay module and where it is. Sorry I could not help you further...
I need to get on the road and beat the weather home to Pittsburgh Pa area....
Almost forgot, :welcome: to TBN
Kioti Tom
Gil Case
Gold Member
I think you are right about the year, mine is an 08 (I think it is an 08) and the serial number starts with H, so that would put you two years earlier. I have the manuals (hard copy) if there is something I can look up, or fax to you I would be happy to do it, but I do not know what variant of start solenoid I have on the 08. i.e power on = on, or power off = on??
I would try contacting Michigan Iron or Wallace for advice and parts.
I would try contacting Michigan Iron or Wallace for advice and parts.
You can determine the power on/off thing pretty quickly. If your's is the same as mine, the solenoid is on the right side of the engine near the radiator shroud. It is attached to two studs coming out of the engine block and has a single wire coming out of the rear of the solenoid (ie the end closest to the rad). There is a plunger coming out of the other end of the solenoid that pulls in when you shut the key off - thereby shutting off the fuel to the engine. After a few seconds it will release. This would be the power off, solenoid on situation.
I have also just learned that my signal lights and hazards are also not working and when I turn them on, there is a clicking sound from under the dash. I suspect there is another relay under there that is pooched. Going to call a dealer today and see if they can get hold of a wiring diagram for me.
I have also just learned that my signal lights and hazards are also not working and when I turn them on, there is a clicking sound from under the dash. I suspect there is another relay under there that is pooched. Going to call a dealer today and see if they can get hold of a wiring diagram for me.
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
Bruce
You do have a 2006 configuration, as indicated by the "F" in the s/n. I don't have tech data to tell me the exact configuration of the 196 model so I'll assume it's a straight CK20 version where the stop solenoid operates through some external linkages like this:
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/ck20/ss
and
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/ck20/schematic
If so, your assumptions about how things should operate are correct. Reference your measurements:
These are all normal values, except for (maybe) the 6v. I assume these measurements were made at the connector while the solenoid was disconnected. I believe you have a high resistance connection somewhere in the (B+) path from the battery to the solenoid such that the solenoid can't get enough current to operate. If possible, can you repeat these measurements with the solenoid connected?
I think you will find that the solenoid does not get sufficient voltage/current during the 5 second shutdown interval to operate the solenoid. The most likely causes are: poor (dirty/burned/coroded) contacts within the relay, a poor connection in the wire between the relay and the solenoid, a poor connection in the wire or fuse that feeds the relay from the battery/alternator. You can isolate the cause with your volt meter working your way backwards from the solenoid (e.g. measure at solenoid (with solenoid connected), measure at relay output, measure at relay B+ input, measure at fuse output, measure at fuse input). or you might just visually inspect the fuse first. Long leads with alligator clips (or a helper to work the key switch) help here. I'll bet you'ff find a high resistance connection in that path.
By the way, the ignition switch is not the problem this time. The timer starts (as it's supposed to) when you turn the switch to off.
You do have a 2006 configuration, as indicated by the "F" in the s/n. I don't have tech data to tell me the exact configuration of the 196 model so I'll assume it's a straight CK20 version where the stop solenoid operates through some external linkages like this:
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/ck20/ss
and
http://kittrellcommunitywatch.dyndns.org/ck20/schematic
If so, your assumptions about how things should operate are correct. Reference your measurements:
These are all normal values, except for (maybe) the 6v. I assume these measurements were made at the connector while the solenoid was disconnected. I believe you have a high resistance connection somewhere in the (B+) path from the battery to the solenoid such that the solenoid can't get enough current to operate. If possible, can you repeat these measurements with the solenoid connected?
I think you will find that the solenoid does not get sufficient voltage/current during the 5 second shutdown interval to operate the solenoid. The most likely causes are: poor (dirty/burned/coroded) contacts within the relay, a poor connection in the wire between the relay and the solenoid, a poor connection in the wire or fuse that feeds the relay from the battery/alternator. You can isolate the cause with your volt meter working your way backwards from the solenoid (e.g. measure at solenoid (with solenoid connected), measure at relay output, measure at relay B+ input, measure at fuse output, measure at fuse input). or you might just visually inspect the fuse first. Long leads with alligator clips (or a helper to work the key switch) help here. I'll bet you'ff find a high resistance connection in that path.
By the way, the ignition switch is not the problem this time. The timer starts (as it's supposed to) when you turn the switch to off.
Scott - thank you very much for the input. Those wiring diagrams are particularly helpful. I think (hope) you're probably spot on with your suspect wire connections diagnosis. I found this afternoon when I turned on both the signal lights and the hazards that all I got was a bunch of clicking under the dashboard and no lights. I'm going to spend some time tomorrow with the dash off cleaning up connections. I'm beginning to think I might have a bad ground somewhere. I've had similar problems with my old Fiat sports car and a bit of terminal cleaning and some dielectric grease has sorted things out. I hope that's all I'm facing here.
Bruce
Bruce
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
You may have bad grounds but that's not your stop-solenoid problem (because it works fine when connected directly to the battery). Look for a problem in the positive feed.
DABSGT
Veteran Member
Sounds like you have some good advice good luck and welcome.
Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet
Sent from my iPad using TractorByNet
ritcheyvs
Veteran Member
A year or so ago, there was an Australian website with a number of Daedong manuals in pdf format. I saved the files applicable to my DK45s and also just the electrical portion of the CK20 book (to help answer someone's question). Since then. they locked the site (password access only) so it's no longer available. I had already paid for a paper copy of my books so I don't feel bad about saving the files for my tractor.
The links I sent were pdf page prints from the CK20 electrical section. I put them on my web site temporarily for your access. I'll probably delete them in a few days.
In any case, you can buy a paper copy of the manual for your CK from any dealer; I think they are in the $50-100 range.
