New L110 or 5 Year Old LT133

[jrbek]

Was wondering what you experts out there thought... have an opportunity to pick up a 5 year LT133 in good operating condition at $900 (approx 200 mile drive out and 200 back to pick it up) or just have an L110 delivered to my home at approx $1800

As far as I can see, the L110 is a hydro unit and the LT133 is not... The LT133 is significantly older with a 13hp Kohler in supposed good condition (approx 140-160 hours). The L110 is brand new... The LT133 is supposed to be a more durable unit and from what I hear, many of you experts don't particularly care for a the L100 series...

I have 3/4 acre of mowing.. live in florida so no snow blowing.. probably won't be doing any towing or anything.. just mowing...

Would like a quality machine. From what I've read the many of the experts out there prefer the higher end units to the new cheaper L100 series...

Given what I've mentioned above, which way would you guys go.. is the 5speed LT133 so much of a better machine (at half the price and long long drive) to forego hydro in the L110 with "somewhat" lower durability and questionable long term quality.

Experienced opinions greatly appreciated...

 

[dmp437]

I don't read anything about how long you expect to be using it.
If you want it to be a "lifetime" tractor look a little further up the chain than the "throwaway" L series. ANY tractor sold at Home Depot, regardless of brand, is a throwaway. Cheap componets screwed together to meet a price target, not provide long term satisfaction. With that being said, if you're shopping on the low end get out of it as cheap as possible; get the LT133. If it were me I would spend a bit more and pickup a (better built) GT series with a bigger deck and a Kawi engine.
As far as wanting a quality machine, a little story......
Everyone laughed at my Dad in 1965 when he spent $900 on a lawn mower, a 10HP John Deere 112 with a 48" deck. They had all bought cheaper tractors congradulating themselves on saving a buck. That '65 JD112, with regular maintainance, ran like champ until 2004 when 2nd gear finally gave out and my Dad traded it in on a new GT235. Everyone else had been through at least three tractors, each time paying progressively more money to buy the same level machine. What seemed more expensive up front was way cheaper in the long run.

 

[obrith]

JD used to have the official stance (before the L100's) that they built their units (the LT's and LX's) to the highest possible standards within their budget. The new L100's are built to directly compete with Sears/Craftsman, Murry, Husky, ect.

Those other brand units are typically "built to last about 200 hours of use" in the budget models. Don't expect a whole lot more out of an L100 series. Sure they are BETTER units than most of their competition, but realize those are basically HOMELITE/SCOTTS products; JD consumed them years back and had them making scotts for them for a while until they realized their dealers hated working on the scotts. JD changed over from the scotts products under Home Depot's pressure to make their mowers more saleable, and make the dealers more likely to work on them (most of that stemmed out of Texas law that a dealer doesn't have to work on anything they didn't sell, because some of them refused to service scotts -- how can a dealer explain that the new L100 units really arnt JD units?).

On the other hand, keep in mind that the LT133 was John Deere's very bottom end mower for years. The frame and deck is much heavier than the L100's, and the Kohler engine is far superior to a B&S, but this isn't a really heavy duty mower. All in all, the LT133 units have held up well for my customers though (well, the ones that dont totally abuse them).

I feel that for the money, the John Deere LT's and LX's are by far the best mowers you can buy... for a basic mower anyhow. Most of my customers with old JD mowers have had them running for decades and still only have very minor problems with them. Careful though, you really arnt buying a classic JD quality mower in the L100 series!

If that LT133 is in really good shape, and you're willing to do some of your own work, I'd definitely look into it over an L110.

 

[texastomtom]

I have not used a l series, but even the deere brochures call them the economy model and show that they are not built to last as long as the lt series. I believe their brochure says the lt will last either 40 or 60 percent longer - sorry i dont remember which.

I can say that I have a LT166 and it has been great. I've only had it 4-5 years. Untill this year I mowed 5 city size lawns with it and beginning in 2004 I only mow one but it is bigger than the other 5 put together. Probably just over an acre now. I also use it to pull a small garden trailer around the orchard and just to run around with irrigation parts etc on my 5 acre orchard. Wife runs around on it also... Point being it gets used 3 or 4 times a week. I even added some additional lighting to it for running around at night on the home place...
( ok call me lazy ) But its really dark out in the country so it saves steps and lights up things. Also its noisy enough to scare off the skunks before you get close /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have never done anything other than clean the battery cables and of course regular maintenance and blades.

It is hydrostat which I absolutely LOVE. In fact due to my satisfaction with the hydro I also bought a 4720 compact with hydro.

Also, if you dont mind spending a bit more the twin cylinder versions are so much quiter you would not believe it.

That is also one of the reasons I bought the LT166 - I didn't necessarily need the extra power but wanted the relative quietness of the twin cylinder.

My brother has had one of the LT series, older I think maybe an Lt100 or ????

All he has ever done is regular maintenance. He mows about 2 acres over several locations on a regular basis. It is well over 20 years old and still works like a champ. His doesn't look so sharp as he leaves it out in the weather but it still performs well. I think he has put a few batteries and plugs. Other than that - nothing !

Long term - excellent series of mowers in my opinion.

If the l series is indeed built to similiar stands as murray/ranch hand etc then I wouldnt have one. I have tried the ranch hand and it was JUNK - always something broke on it.

My dad had a L series which I never used myself. He used it a few years then just gave it to some guy if he would keep my dads lawn mowed for one year. The guy did his part keeping the lawn mowed for him - but the l series didn't even finish out that year. I think my dad got the best end of that deal. When he gave it to him he had brought everything up to proper working order and still the guy couldn't keep it going the rest of the year.

Sounds like I'm blasting the L series - dont intend to - but facts are facts.

The higher series may be worth the extra as well - but I cannot comment on them as I have never used them.

If my lt lasts 20 years - I'm sure I wont regret it. I do like to get new and shiny stuff every couple decades anyhow /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

tom

 

[Dutch445]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Sure they are BETTER units than most of their competition, but realize those are basically HOMELITE/SCOTTS products; JD consumed them years back and had them making scotts for them for a while until they realized their dealers hated working on the scotts. JD changed over from the scotts products under Home Depot's pressure to make their mowers more saleable, and make the dealers more likely to work on them (most of that stemmed out of Texas law that a dealer doesn't have to work on anything they didn't sell, because some of them refused to service scotts -- how can a dealer explain that the new L100 units really arnt JD units?).

The frame and deck is much heavier than the L100's, and the Kohler engine is far superior to a B&S, but this isn't a really heavy duty mower. All in all, the LT133 units have held up well for my customers though (well, the ones that dont totally abuse them).

)</font>

ORBITH,
how long have you been a Deere DEALER?
an L series is a HOMELITE?

my understanding was the L series directly replaced the John Deere Sabre line that was built by John Deere at a John Deere factory. Yes, the Sabre carried the Scott's name at Depot, but it was the same machine! 2 or 3 years ago Deere/Depot acknowledged that renaming these as L100 series tractors would increase sales by eliminating the confusion over who built Scotts/Sabre. Sales have skyrocketed. They are still an entry level mower, and they do not fall under the Deere "Premium" line. But, if you remember, there used to be STX tractors that were fairly inexpensive also. Again, an entry level Deere.
As far as the quality of an L series goes compared to the LT133, you sincerely don't have any idea what you are talking about do you?
An LT frame consists of the front half being 3.mm thick, and the rear half is 3.5 mm thick .
The L110 frame is all 3.mm thick steel frame
As far as engines goes, on this particular comparison, the LT133 has a 13hp kohler, like you state, but the L110 has a 17.5 HP KOHLER with pressure lube and spin on filter,, just like the LT133.
The transmissions are both built by DANA, yes, the LT133 is a 5 speed, and the L110 is a Hydro.
PTO engagement on the LT133 is done with a mechanical lever next to the steering wheel, while on the L110 it is an electric PTO, just pull the switch.
Mower decks for both machines share 12gage steel, with the LT133 having 38" and the L110 42" cut. A mulch cover is standard on the L110.
Front axles on both are 3/4 inch, and are both greaseable.
Now, as far as weight, the LT133 weighs 455 lbs.
The L110 weighs, 458!
I can't see where this LT133, which is 4 or 5 years old now, is going to be all that much of a better machine than a new L110 with full warranty. That LT133 could very well be due for deck bearings/spindles, belts, etc. items that will be good for years on a new machine.
If we were comparing a used LX255 to this L110, I certainly could see your argument. But, in this case, I just don't see the advantage of buying the LT133 over the L series unless the machine is low hours and been well maintained.
Brand new, the LT133 was 1999, the L110 is 1799,, so can there really be that much difference in these machines?

again,
Just MHO.

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Cliff_Johns]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Brand new, the LT133 was 1999, the L110 is 1799,, so can there really be that much difference in these machines? )</font>

Nice informative post. The only thing I question is this last line. Since some significant part of the L110 $1,799 cost is the Hydro, the base machine, that is, the engine, frame, etc... would be significantly different. That said, I still agree with your conclusion.

I've owned an LT166 since 1998. Wonderful machine and I would recommend it to anyone, but it's hydro. I think in this case the newer machine being Hydro makes the difference.

Cliff

 

[Dutch445]

There are cost differences in the transmissions,
I think thru parts the L110 hydro costs 577 while a replacement for the 5speed runs about 250.. yet,
in the shop, I have seen more older gear transmissions being tossed than the hydros. circa STX and 100 series (160/185 etc)

Now, consider the L100 with it's 5 speed, and it's B&S engine with splash lube, and we start all over with this discussion, but i'm not goin there!

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[jrbek]

Thanks for your thoughtful post Dutch.. I am the original poster... It's been really interesting listening to the feedback... It's been really valuable.

You bring up some really good points... the most valuable so far.. It would be interesting to see someone with the same amount of knowledge on the other side of the fence..

There is no doubt there is some quality difference that relates to the price difference we see between the L & LT series.. However, the question is, is the L series really the "crap" that some folks & dealers say or is it really a good product "at it's given price point". Would be interesting to see more debate on this...

Based on what I'm hearing, I'm leaning toward the L110 at this point... I'd consider an LT150, but for $800 more, I'm not sure I see the value.. I only have 3/4 acre in suburban Miami (no hills, no snow).. and I'm sure I'd be pretty light on the unit..

Funny you brought up the L100.. I actually bought one last week... I have already made up my mind to return it... It was just a little difficult to make up my mind on the used higher quality gear drive in the LT133 or the step up to the brand new L110 hydro from the L100... Either way, L110 or LT150, it seems like hydro is the way to go...

Again.. appreciate all input...

Regards,

JB

 

[Dutch445]

JB,
You are welcome...
I have to admit, if you were an existing premium JD customer, that had an LX176 or so, I certainly would be showing you the LT or LX again, and make sure you knew the differences when you talk about the L100. But, for your lawn, I see no reason why an L110 wouldn't work great for years. 3/4 acre should be less than an hour per mow, it's flat, like you say very easy on the machine. My experience has been that the SAbre/L100 tractors have held up fine, with the exception of an occasional B&S engine problem. If they are used in rough conditions, deck supports and belt tension pulley brackets take a beating. But, for an established lawn, not recaptured cornfield, they should last years.
BTW, this year the L110 becomes an L111, with 20HP B&S. Not so sure that this is a great change.

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[obrith]

Dutch, that was quite an informative post. It will prove most helpful to the original question. And yes, I said Homelite... all of homelites facilities that still exist are now JD facilities. Once you own them, you can call them whatever you like (look it up, its called "John Deere Homelite Products")... quality wise, you're looking at something that is closer to their equipment though. I've worked at my dealership for about 8 years now in Parts and Sales.... mostly parts.

A question for you -- Yes, the deck is stamped with the same gauge steel, but have you seen the spindles in L100's? They are junk compaired to the LT's. And as for the frame. I perfer a bolted together unit to one that is screwed together....

As for the STX's, you are totally right, they were the 'lower end' units, but they held(hold!) up great. I see the LT133's my customers bring in holding up FAR better than any of the POS scotts machines I see, but maybe thats more the owners than the machines.

I completely agree about the L100. Not even worth a look. I wouldnt even sell one to someone if they begged. I just wouldnt want to listen to them when they had issues.