New Holland PTO systems

8226hamer · May 15, 2007

This is my first post on the New Holland board as I am a Kubota owner.
The reason for my post is that I have a L2800 HSt Kubota with just 212 hours time and around 20 hours of PTO use that I am having PTO problems with. The locking cams in the PTO system has faild me twice now and \from what I have seen from having my tractor split in half for these repairs was, that this system is prone to failure and will not hold up. Each time the cams have failed I was running a 48" Land Pride series 1500 roto tiler. My basic 24 month or 1500 hour warranty will expire next month and I find by meeting with Kubotas feild rep that this repair will not be covered under the 36 month 3000 hour powertrain warranty. I have to have a dependable PTO system on my tractor as I use the tiller more than any implement I own. I need a small 30 HP tractor with a depenable PTO system that will hold up to running a tiller. I like the looks of the New Holand tractors and see several around where I live. Do they have good PTO systems? What type do they use in most of their tractors? I am not happy at all with the way Kubota has handled my problems and don't want to have the same problems again, with another brand. Any info, good or bad will help me in purchasing a new tractor.

Soundguy · May 15, 2007

I don't know what kubota uses.. ( havn't seen any schematics).. but NH uses a variety of systems depending on what tractor you get. Anything from 2 stage clutch with sliding coupler.. to independent systems that use a wet clutch pack.. etc.

I can see why you are looking for a new tractor.. 2 pto repairs in 212 hours.. I don't even think the chinese tractors can make that claim to fame by a long shot even.

2 thoughts come to mind,

1, you are grossly overloading the pto.

2, some sort of manufacturing defect is not letting the pto fully engage so that it either slips, or can slip out and wear easilly. This could even be a defect in the rear housing letting some component not perfectly line up.

I saw a post where a guy with a compact NH tractor was going thru axle bearings at about the same rate you were going thru pto assemblies.. I am pretty sure the end findings were that his axle trumpet was mis machined and causing the failure... Possibly that is what you have.. a bad machined casting. Had it been some other replaceable component. presumably after 2 splits it would have been found. I also would assume that would be smoking over the engage and detent mechanism.. especially if this was warratny work.

Without knowing what model you are looking at I can only give general advice... however.. I'm a bit of a ford collector.. and NH .. or CNH is now the last iteration of ford.. thru mergers.. etc.

I have ford tractors back thru 1946 and up thru NH 2002 units. I have a 1975 ford 5000 that is a very close unit to my 2002 NH 7610s Virtually same tranny.. etc.. same with pto etc.. Have had no problems with wither. they are independent units.

I have a 33 hp NH 1920.. 2 stage clutch setup. As long as I kept the clutch adjusted correctly.. I never had a shifting or slipping problem with it either.

If you locate a specific model.. post it. then you can get more direct info. While I'm not saying anything negative about orange..... I can say that you should be able to find a blue unit that you are happy with... ( or get them to fix that orange one correctly! )

Soundguy

Soundguy

JC-jetro · May 15, 2007

Soundguy said:
I.

If you locate a specific model.. post it. then you can get more direct info. While I'm not saying anything negative about orange..... I can say that you should be able to find a blue unit that you are happy with... ( or get them to fix that orange one correctly! )

Soundguy

Soundguy

Soundguy, you can find some background info and few good pics on the so called cam assembly/over running clutch combo

. it may shed some light...

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/99785-l2800-l3400-power-take-off.html

JerryG · May 15, 2007

I have seen in a lot of tractor transmissions in my life, but I have never seen a real tractor have that type of PTO arrangement.

8226hamer · May 15, 2007

Soundguy said:
I don't know what kubota uses.. ( havn't seen any schematics).. but NH uses a variety of systems depending on what tractor you get. Anything from 2 stage clutch with sliding coupler.. to independent systems that use a wet clutch pack.. etc.

I can see why you are looking for a new tractor.. 2 pto repairs in 212 hours.. I don't even think the chinese tractors can make that claim to fame by a long shot even.

2 thoughts come to mind,

1, you are grossly overloading the pto.

2, some sort of manufacturing defect is not letting the pto fully engage so that it either slips, or can slip out and wear easilly. This could even be a defect in the rear housing letting some component not perfectly line up.

I saw a post where a guy with a compact NH tractor was going thru axle bearings at about the same rate you were going thru pto assemblies.. I am pretty sure the end findings were that his axle trumpet was mis machined and causing the failure... Possibly that is what you have.. a bad machined casting. Had it been some other replaceable component. presumably after 2 splits it would have been found. I also would assume that would be smoking over the engage and detent mechanism.. especially if this was warratny work.

Without knowing what model you are looking at I can only give general advice... however.. I'm a bit of a ford collector.. and NH .. or CNH is now the last iteration of ford.. thru mergers.. etc.

I have ford tractors back thru 1946 and up thru NH 2002 units. I have a 1975 ford 5000 that is a very close unit to my 2002 NH 7610s Virtually same tranny.. etc.. same with pto etc.. Have had no problems with wither. they are independent units.

I have a 33 hp NH 1920.. 2 stage clutch setup. As long as I kept the clutch adjusted correctly.. I never had a shifting or slipping problem with it either.

If you locate a specific model.. post it. then you can get more direct info. While I'm not saying anything negative about orange..... I can say that you should be able to find a blue unit that you are happy with... ( or get them to fix that orange one correctly! )

Soundguy

Soundguy

My first two tractors were kubota and they preformed without any down time with over 3000 hour of use. They both had independent PTO systems. I am assuming that this type is a much better set up and this is what type my next tractor will have. So whatever model that New Holland makes I will want an independent PTO with a HST transmission. I would like a smaller framed trasctor, but with enough HP to pull a 5' lawn gill pulverizer. I use my tractor for lawn installs and the way they are building houses on top of each other, I do need it to be able to work in tight places.
When I put a lawn in I usualy run my tiller first then pull a lawn gill to lay it out and prep the lawn for seed or sod. My tiller is a Land Pride 1550 forward rotating tiller and I made my lawn gill or as some call them a pulverizer and it is 5'.

As far as overloading the PTO, like I said my first two Kubotas never had this problem running the same tiller and using them no different than the L2800 that is not holding together.

I have seen some information on the New Hollands with a steering system that lets the front axles turn giving it a much smaller turning radius and this would be very nice in some of my situations.
Another question are the New Holland tractors USA made? I alway try to purchase things that are made here and to tell you the truth, I have never been very proud of the fact that I purchased three tractors that were not made in the USA.

JC-jetro · May 15, 2007

8226hamer said:
My first two tractors were kubota and they preformed without any down time with over 3000 hour of use. They both had independent PTO systems. I am assuming that this type is a much better set up and this is what type my next tractor will have. So whatever model that New Holland makes I will want an independent PTO with a HST transmission. I would like a smaller framed trasctor, but with enough HP to pull a 5' lawn gill pulverizer. I use my tractor for lawn installs and the way they are building houses on top of each other, I do need it to be able to work in tight places.
When I put a lawn in I usualy run my tiller first then pull a lawn gill to lay it out and prep the lawn for seed or sod. My tiller is a Land Pride 1550 forward rotating tiller and I made my lawn gill or as some call them a pulverizer and it is 5'.

As far as overloading the PTO, like I said my first two Kubota never had this problem running the same tiller and using them no different than the L2800 that is not holding together.

I have seen some information on the New Hollands with a steering system that lets the front axles turn giving it a much smaller turning radius and this would be very nice in some of my situations.
Another question are the New Holland tractors USA made? I alway try to purchase things that are made here and to tell you the truth, I have never been very proud of the fact that I purchased three tractors that were not made in the USA.

For the size of tractor you need and want (30 Hp class) most are made in japan or far east. My Ford 1700 is a Shibaura made for Ford and same as Yanmar making compact and sub-compact tractors for John Deere and so on and so forth. Saying that I really like my Ford not because where it is made but more becuase of the quality and ease of maintenance with it. if you want Ford decal TC-30 is one heck of a no frill tractor for tight spots , very capable and reasonably priced for all the stuff you mentioned.

Kubotasrking · May 15, 2007

I have seen some information on the New Hollands with a steering system that lets the front axles turn giving it a much smaller turning radius and this would be very nice in some of my situations.
Another question are the New Holland tractors USA made? I alway try to purchase things that are made here and to tell you the truth, I have never been very proud of the fact that I purchased three tractors that were not made in the USA.

The feature you are referring to is supersteer, and it is very cool. I sold my Kubota and purchased a larger tractor because I moved to a much bigger piece of ground. When I started shopping around, NH had features like super steer, sensitrak 4wd, awesome joystick (turtle/rabbit, 3rd function, slow dump, etc..), and simple enhancements like a swivel seat in addition to a superb machine. I've not regretted my purchase.

As far as where they are manufactured...others will know the answer completely. That being said, mine is powered by a Shibaura 4 cyl engine which is manufactured in Japan.

jinman · May 16, 2007

Chuck, you need to visit your NH dealer and get a feel for the various models. For economy, the TC30 is 30 hp and the 1520 is 35 hp. They are both no-frills tractors and can have an HST transmission.

The mid-range Boomer line has two tractors that have much more deluxe features, HST available, and can have the SuperSteer option. These tractors ae the TC31DA and TC34DA.

The next group of tractors in a larger size are the TC35DA, TC40DA, and TC45DA. They all share a similar size frame and operator layout and can have the SuperSteer option. They do have different controls than the TC31/34DA models in that their HST is a dual pedal and the brakes are on the left. They also have no clutch to the transmission. The PTO is an independent wet clutch/brake as Soundguy mentioned.

All NH Boomers are assembled in Georgia, but the running gear is built by Shibaura in Japan. The FELs, BHs. and most implements are made right here in the USA until recently. Now the loaders are built by ALO, I think a european manufacturer.

One other thing. If you want the same tractor in Red, go look at Case. They are the same with the exception of a few cosmetic looks and the Case models do not have SuperSteer.

Your current L2800 is probably about the same size and weight as the TC30. If you go with one of the mid or larger size Boomers, you will have a much heavier tractor that will be a consideration for hauling to your jobsites.

Good luck in your search.

schmism · May 16, 2007

Im really happy with my TC33DA

I recently added a tiller to my collection and last weekend it got a workout. The 58" version was a good match just covering the rear wheels, the tractor had enough HP to power it through virgin sod and hard clay first pass at max dept while maintaining a decent ground speed. (albit a bit of a rough ride)

i dont know the mechincs of how mine works.....

i can tell you this, PTO is gear driven and requires use of the clutch to engage.
HST pump runs off some gear located AFTER clutch. (if you step on the clutch it kills power to everything, both PTO's and the HST)

TC33DA comes with a mid-pto that i dont think the TC30 (no frills) comes with. You will WANT the delux hitch unless you dont swap attachments often. I looked at the TC30 vs the 33 and really felt the features that make the 33 a "delux" are well worth the small increase in price.

Soundguy · May 16, 2007

Wow!.. I'm forced to agree..

That system loos to be designed to fail under heavy load situations.. Add a little fore/aft bearing play and I can see a load making the couple try to disengage int he driven direction.. chamfering the ends as it does it.. thus making it do it easier and more often, the longer it wears..

Soundguy