New driveway in process - now destroyed?

5030tinkerer · Mar 30, 2007

I have a new driveway with a geotextile fabric on it still under construction. Rock is very, very, very light, with fabric showing almost the whole length of the drive. After the first 30' in fact, there is a section maybe 50' long with no rock really at all. It has been raining quite a lot lately, thereby stopping any forward progress on this project. Tonight I noticed that someone drove over the driveway with it like this. They left up to 12" deep ruts in places, but surprisingly didn't tear the geo fabric. Whereas all water before ran along the edges of the drive, the water is now running in the tire tracks they left (there is a 35-40' elevation difference from the top of this drive to the base).

Is the only course of action at this point to avoid having a bad driveway forever to pull everything up and re-grade it when things dry out?

rox · Mar 30, 2007

I cna't believe your luck! i am surprised you didn't ahve barricades at he end of the drive to prevent anyone form entering.

EddieWalker · Mar 30, 2007

I'm wondering why you got the ruts in the first place? Was the ground compacted before you layed the fabric down? Was it dry? Do you have drainage on the sides of the road, or is the fabric at the same height as the land around it?

Something is wrong here and the ruts are just telling you that there is a problem.

Adding rock to fabric wont fix a soft base. Until that is correct, you'll always have issues.

Good luck,
Eddie

inveresk · Mar 30, 2007

There are different types of geotextiles. Some can be laid on a soft, saturated base as explained in the attached Propex information sheet. Some can't. However, fabric has to be laid tight with good overlaps, not with big tyre track depressions. You also need enough rock on top to act as a stable base and to properly protect the geotextile.

Find out what type and spec. your fabric is then follow the manufacturer's printed instructions for laying it. At this stage I can't see you can do other than lift it then relay.

Egon · Mar 30, 2007

Is this the hillside that was always wet? Or am I thinking of another thread?

Renze · Mar 30, 2007

If the ruts are 12" deep, the mud that used to be where the ruts are now, must have moved somewhere, so it probably moved all over. With fabric below it, you cant grade much before you hit the ridges in the base and scrape up the fabric. (that sounds weird i suppose

)

If it is strong fabric i'd tie one end together, tie a strong rope to it and pull it overtop with the tractor, this way collecting all the gravel on one end.

Then wait untill the base is totally dry, which it probably wont get because it was possible to drive 12" ruts in it even with fabric on top. So then remove the mud, dig trenches on each side and replace the mud on the road with the solid subsoil from the trenches. Then start on a dry base before putting gravel or fabric on top, when you bury the wet soil under stone and fabric it takes even longer for the road to dry, so you would have to wait longer before you can drive over it without rutting it.

5030tinkerer · Mar 30, 2007

Add enough rain and anything gets mucky. The very reason for the 50' or so of no rock was because the ground was too wet in that section despite the crown I made in the drive. There is a 40' drop along the 800' run of drive. About 80' from the road, this plateau's for a bit, causing the water to collect. I didn't have the drive barricaded since any (well, evidently not ANY) idiot could readily see that this drive was not yet useable. It's baricaded now...

At any rate, plans were (and are) to dig trenches on either side of this drive and install drain tile to give the water an easy path to go to the base of the driveway where there is a quite significant ditch. Once this is complete, I expect the drive to dry out at which point I am now looking at pulling up the gravel and fabric, regrading, and then reinstalling everything. The ruts are only 'bad' for about this 50' distance - it's awfully tempting to just do this one spot unless you guys think that even the lesser ruts of an inch or two that exist in some places are just going to lead to trouble. I used the Propex 221 (I think that's the #) fabric.

The ground was compacted and dry when I laid the fabric down.
The real question I suppose is whether using a vibratory roller, a lawn roller, or even a plate compacter (I own the latter two) is worth a shot, especially while it remains so wet - just walking on the fabric for this 50' distance causes the earth under the fabric to move.

Egon · Mar 31, 2007

You can try and compact very wet material but its basically a waste of time. There is an optimum moisture content for proper compaction and above or below this point really does little.

5030tinkerer · Apr 1, 2007

I was talking about using the vibratory compacter as a way of getting rid of the ruts while avoiding picking up the fabric and starting over...

EddieWalker · Apr 1, 2007

5030tinkerer said:
... The very reason for the 50' or so of no rock was because the ground was too wet in that section despite the crown I made in the drive...

At any rate, plans were (and are) to dig trenches on either side of this drive and install drain tile to give the water an easy path to go to the base of the driveway where there is a quite significant ditch. Once this is complete, I expect the drive to dry out at which point I am now looking at pulling up the gravel and fabric, regrading, and then reinstalling everything. The ruts are only 'bad' for about this 50' distance - it's awfully tempting to just do this one spot unless you guys think that even the lesser ruts of an inch or two that exist in some places are just going to lead to trouble.

The ground was compacted and dry when I laid the fabric down.
The real question I suppose is whether using a vibratory roller, a lawn roller, or even a plate compacter (I own the latter two) is worth a shot, especially while it remains so wet - just walking on the fabric for this 50' distance causes the earth under the fabric to move.

Like Egon mentioned, if the ground is too wet or too dry, it will never compact. You didn't say how you compacted the ground, but did mention cominb back with a plate compactor. This isn't designed for dirt work, just gravel patios. A jumping jack will do it in small areas, but it's not really practical for a road or driveway. To compact soil, you must spread it out in thin layers and compact each layer. These layers are also called lifts.

Before you start compacting, or building up your lifts, you need to be on solid base. Since this 50 foot section has always been wet, you never had a solid base. You had two choices. Wait for it to dry, or dig it out and replace with dirt of the correct moisture content. This is very, very common on construction jobs. An area that is holding water is called pumping. When the dirt is pumping, then it's removed, spread out to dry and good dirt is brought in to replace it.

It also sounds like this road is going right through a low area that holds water. Until you get rid of the water, or build up the road to high that it wont matter, you will always have problems in this area. Water is what destroys roads. Everything else that happens to a road is a result of water damage.

Pull the rock off the fabric, roll up the fabric and redo the dirt. When it's right, you won't have any more problems.

Good Luck,
Eddie