Need some help choosing tractor(s)

[ring3]

I help run a small hunting and fishing club and it time for new equipment. We have settled on Kubota (I have 2 and love them) for both a tractor and a zero turn mower. We keep about 5 acres of flat bottom land mowed, another 2 acres brush hogged, and use a FEL from time to time. The tractor will also have forks for lifting pallets of clay pigeons at 1 ton each and installing/removing trap machines. Operators will be club members who have varying degrees of experience on tractors.

Money is not our main concern, we have plenty set aside for this. What we need is a tractor that will do all the above dependably hopefully for years to come. A MX5000 seems to fit but questions have arisen about HST or Shuttle Shift.

For a variety of current and future operators should we get HST or shift?

What zero turn would best suit or grass cutting needs?

Rear or side discharge? Deck size?

What recommendation would you make in our position?

Thanks for any and all input. I hope this is the proper forum for these questions.

 

[JOHNTHOMAS]

some ANSWERS CAN BE FOUND HERE.
Kubota Lawn & Garden

 

[Ken45101]

Zero turn mowers are great for SMOOTH flat land. However, if it's not smooth lawn, the ride is very bumpy. They are great for where you need to do a lot of turning, e.g. around obstacles, irregular shaped areas, etc. If you have steep hills, ZT mowers are not controllable. We have a couple of hills in our yard and I either have to back the ZD23 down them, or use a different mower.

For loader operations, especially for people not experienced with the equipment, you will be better with a HST transmission rather than needing to have people slip the clutch for precise movement.

One thing you will need for unloading pallets is good visibility of where the forks are. My M5040 absolutely stinks in that department, I can't see where the forks are.

IDK but rear discharge finish mowers seem to be non existent. I wish they had rear discharge rather than piling the clippings up on the side. Bush hogs (brush mowers) are all rear discharge.

For a FEL, you definitely want 4wd.

Ken

 

[Notforhire]

Have you asked your dealer about lifting a one ton pallet? With the load center that far out, you must be close to the rated lift cap. of a MX. Any MX owners care to comment?

for people not experienced with the equipment, you will be better with a HST transmission

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Ken45101]

Have you asked your dealer about lifting a one ton pallet? With the load center that far out, you must be close to the rated lift cap. of a MX. Any MX owners care to comment?

Good catch! From the Kubota press release:

The MX5000 offers two choices of "Performance Matched" loaders, both with single lever joy stick control. The LA852 for heavy duty work with a lift capacity over 2400 pounds at the pivot pins and 1875 lbs in the bucket. The dump height easily clears 9 ft. trucks.

LB702 loader has a two-pin quick attach system with built in boom stands enabling quick dismounts. This is a feature packed affordable loader that will lift over 1850 lbs. at the hinge pins, and over 1540 lbs. in the bucket.

 

[KYDan]

I have the MX5100 with the LA 844 loader and HST (a must for loader chores). It has a 2200 capacity at maximum lift, but it pushes it and it is tippy. However, it is an excellent workhorse machine and a good value tractor that is pretty much bullet proof. It does have a jerky 3 point hitch problem if you are doing grader work on drives, however, I did not find this to be a problem for my needs. Speak with your dealer about it. I have a JD 757 zero turn and it does great on hills, simply mow across the face of the hill. The hill issue varies with machines. The center of gravity has a lot to do with that, the lower riding models do better, the 757 is one that has a very low CG. Ferris makes a zero turn with suspension that would make rough ground easier to deal with. Most of the commercial mowers here in the bluegrass like the Xmark zero turn the best. I have a friend in rural Indiana that has a Kubota zero turn that he uses on rough ground and he loves it. Research what you need and check forums that can help. There is a mower forum as well. I am an unabashed Kubota fan as they have served me well over the years, they are durable, dependable, and hold their value.

 

[BeezFun]

You could look at 3pt forks to lift your clay pigeons if you only have to carry them around. If you have to unload delivery trucks that won't work.
If the fork lift capacity is really a requirement I'd look at skid steers, their geometry really gives them a lifting advantage for their size. I find them faster and more intuitive than tractors. You can also mount bush hogs on the front if you have a large enough pump, and it's easier to see and maneuver, but they're not as fast or comfortable as a tractor to mow with. They also tear up the dirt much easier, although that's a pretty heavy tractor so you're going to do some damage with that as well.
I agree with other poster, a ZTR will really bounce you around, but if your 5ac is relatively smooth you might be able to avoid using tractor to mow. I find that if I go slower on my ZTR it's just as comfortable as my tractor, however it's hard to make myself go slow. If you don't have small gates or lots of close trees, I'd get a 72" deck on the ZTR. Otherwise get whatever fits easily between your obstacles.
As far as having newbies driving around, I doubt if anything is more likely to cause damage than a skid steer, but they sure are fun until you run into something. If you have inexperienced folks lifting 1 ton pallets, you should probably require some kind of training class to keep people from tipping over regardless of what you buy.

 

[Notforhire]

It looks like the MX is out because of the lift cap. In the Kubota line the next step up would be a M5640SUD. I think it would do everything you need to do and would run around $30K. It would have to be a gear trans. No choice. Depending on what your area to mow looks like, you may be able to do all, or most of the mowing with the tractor, and forgo the ZTR. A bush hog and/or a RFMower may work for you.
Unless you are doing lots of dirt work, building berms, ect., I wouldn't recomend a skid steer. Using it with forks would work well, but I wouldn't recomend it for mowing. The mowers are very expensive, Skid Steer Brush Cutter and the ride is rough compaired to a tractor. I think a skidsteer will cost about an additional 50% over the cost of a tractor.

Are you mowing an open area, or around trees?

Bill

 

[ring3]

Thank you for all the informative replies. Other members have visited dealers and come back with varying thoughts. I will be going soon hopefully to narrow down the field.

Rob

 

[ring3]

It looks like the MX is out because of the lift cap. In the Kubota line the next step up would be a M5640SUD. I think it would do everything you need to do and would run around $30K. It would have to be a gear trans. No choice. Depending on what your area to mow looks like, you may be able to do all, or most of the mowing with the tractor, and forgo the ZTR. A bush hog and/or a RFMower may work for you.
Unless you are doing lots of dirt work, building berms, ect., I wouldn't recomend a skid steer. Using it with forks would work well, but I wouldn't recomend it for mowing. The mowers are very expensive, Skid Steer Brush Cutter and the ride is rough compaired to a tractor. I think a skidsteer will cost about an additional 50% over the cost of a tractor.

Are you mowing an open area, or around trees?

Bill

Mowing is 95% flat with the majority open fields. Some trees, trap houses and a few structures are the only obstacles. The club need a tractor for its versatility. Brush hogging, dressing the stone in roads, occasional dirt moving, lifting trap machines, and about once a year unloading pallets of targets. We planned on adding a RF mower so it could be used for that also. We gather as a group to mow and the thinking is multiple mowers going while others trim.

A skid steer is out. Usually when we get a shipment of targets we rent a skid steer to off load the pallets onto trailers. Our present tractor waits at the club for the loaded trailer and unloads the skid into the garage. Location and a creek make this necessary.

Our current tractor is an early 80s International 682 (I think that's the model #). It still works but is in need of some repairs. Many members refuse to operate it for mowing. It will likely be sold.
A zero turn mower was planned next year but our finances allow for it now. Thought we might get a little better deal buying both at the same time.

A pallet of targets weigh closer to 1900#s. the traps around 5-600#s. Otherwise the FEL would be used for dirt, etc.

Don't want to oversize the tractor so that present and future members are intimidated operating it but don't want undersized for our occasional needs. I am pro HST for ease of use. Having trouble convincing some of our more seasoned members to go this route.

Another question, I like turf tires and have little experience with R4s. Which would be better for us based on the use I have described?

Thanks again.

 

[KYDan]

It looks like the MX is out because of the lift cap.

Bill

Where did you get your capacity information on the LA 844 loader? My owner's manual specifications are 1852 lbs. at maximum height 500mm forward. At 500 mm forward at 1500 mm height it is 2478 lbs. If they are lifting anything higher than 13-14' It will take a much larger tractor than a compact for safety and most likely a skid steer would better serve their needs. However, transporting low height loads not higher than the hood of the tractor the MX will handle 2,500 lb. range material safely and with ease.

 

[Ken45101]

Another question, I like turf tires and have little experience with R4s. Which would be better for us based on the use I have described?

First thing to check is the weight bearing capacity of the turf tires. If you are lifting a ton with the loader, it may well exceed the capacity of the tires.

Other than that, on flat, grassy land, turf tires would probably be okay. I have turf tires on my B2710 and they have never been a problem but I stay out of the mud with that tractor.

 

[KYDan]

I have R4's so I won't cleat the runway and they work fine for most of my applications. They do not have near the traction of R1's, but considerably better than turf tires. R4's tend to skid on the surface more than the R1's.

 

[Notforhire]

Where did you get your capacity information on the LA 844 loader?

Kubota's site says 2443# at the pins. Add the weight of the forks and move the load center out 2.5ft based on that, I would think it would be overloaded. You said

It has a 2200 capacity at maximum lift, but it pushes it and it is tippy.

That is why I eliminated it.

I do not have a OM, and I never operated a MX. If you feel that it's safe, OK. You have the experence, I don't.
As far as the skid steer goes, the OP feels that a tractor will best serve their needs.

Bill

 

[PHILIP8N]

What about a used older fork truck to unload the pallets. A small one can easly lift and move 2K. Then use the 3 point to move pallets around. This could put you in a smaller, easier to handle, and less expensive tractor. Also, check this out. http://www.edwards-equip.com/SiteDocuments/14-tt48-49-413.1010a.pdf A 3 point fork lift with high lift capabilitiies. They make many different sizes and capacities. Do a search, I am sure there are also other manufacturers. Philip.

 

[jim44]

If you're going to try to lift and carry 2000 pounds with a MX 5000 size tractor, you'll definitely need some serious counter weight on the back. Once the rear wheels raise up off the ground, you're pretty much screwed----and they will...........

 

[rmorey]

Why don't you consider other brands? Not that I'm not biased, but the Kioti DK40 loader (KL401) lift capacity is north of 2,700 lbs and would cost less than $30k for sure.

 

[ring3]

Visited the dealer last evening and got to see/ try out a few tractors. Likely we are going with a MX5000 and a z331. Staying with a HST is important for ease of use and the MX5000 is as big as we want to go. With a brush hog on the back and loaded tires the dealer says we will have no problem lifting a pallet of targets off a box trailer and setting them down. This is an infrequent activity so getting and maintaining a separate piece of equipment wouldn't make sense.

Many of us own and operate Kubota's and love them so other brands never were seriously discussed. The local dealer is very supportive in our community and close by.

Not a done deal but very close. I want to again thank all who responded. The discussion brought many points of consideration. I'm more confident now in the direction we are going.

Rob