Need input from Front End Loader owners

[Anonymous Poster]

My question is dealing with the down pressure of front end loaders, specifically enough down pressure to raise the front wheels off of the ground and how it relates to the “float” feature. Recently I read some information on this (maybe I misunderstood) and I assumed it was regarding most newer tractors. It stated in effect that the “better” modern loader systems today have a float feature…..and to lift the front wheels off of the ground, one must simply curl the bucket down before applying down pressure. Is this the way all new Kubota loaders operate? How about John Deere & New Holland? I have seen (and would prefer) tractors that had enough down pressure to lift the front end with the bucket FLAT on the ground AND also had the float feature. Did I misunderstand the information, or do newer tractors/loaders (unfortunately) need to curl the bucket down to accomplish this? Thanks for any and all input on this………

-Greg J

 

[Bird]

Greg, my B2710 works as you said you'd prefer, i.e., it will pick the front wheels up with the bucket sitting flat on the ground. Naturally, you pick the front up even higher if the bucket is rolled forward with the leading edge on the ground. And then of course, if you push forward a little harder on the joystick into the float position, the front end will drop back down.

Bird

 

[Roy]

My Kubota LA211 also lifts the tractor from either a flat postion or with the leading edge down. It has float (a Year 2000 model).

 

[glennmac]

Just to amplify slightly on what Bird said, since you seem to be unfamiliar with loader joystick controls. There are two forward postions on the joystick: regular forward for downpressure, and even further forward for float that engages with a detent click. Pushing the joystick forward in the regular forward position will put downpressure on the loader. That downpressure can raise the wheels no matter whether the bucket is in dump or curl or in between -- but as Bird says, you can get more elevation if the bucket is dumped. If you continue to push the joystick forward into the detent click, the down pressure will end and the bucket will simply float on its own weitht. I sort of assumed that all tractors with a single joystick operated this way. Certainly all the B series Kubota's do. Just try them all out at the dealers.

 

[bsauter]

My B2150, B2910 and L3010 all would lift the front wheels with the bucket flat. And even higher with bucket curled of course. All had float. All worked great. Good luck in your purchase.

Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978

 

[WVBill]

The B219 Loader on my 1978 Kubota B6100DT will not raise the front wheels with the bucket flat. It will take some weight off of them but there's not enough piston travel for any more. Curling the bucket down will raise the wheels.

Bill

 

[glennmac]

I don't mean to be unnecessarily picky about other people's use of terminology, but sometimes unclear words confuse us all, especially beginners.

We are all communicating the same message to Greg but are using different words to describe the bucket position that results in the greatest wheel lifting elevation. The maximum bucket elevation position has been variously described by us as when the bucket is: "curled down" or "curled" or "dumped" or "leading edge down" or "rolled forward". Could you translate that if you were unfamiliar with the operation?

I say that there are two rotational bucket positions: "dump" and "curl". I say that because that is what the loader manual and loader controls call the two positions. Using this terminology, maximum wheel elevation is achieved when the bucket is in about the 90% "dump" position -- ie, when the bucket is dumped to the position where the bottom edge is is vertical to the ground.

Of course, if you were starting from the maximum dump position, you would have to curl the bucket slightly to get to this vertical position ... ah, what the heck ... which way is my refrigerator.

Glenn

 

[Bird]

Very good, Glenn!/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Of course I sometimes even get confused with clear words./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[bpence]

WOW!!! Great explanation. Even I understood (well, mostly anyway) your explanation, glennmac. You're so right about how we talk about things we're familiar with and we "assume" (bad thing) that everyone else knows the lingo.

Bob Pence

 

[DVerbarg]

My observation is that all three major brands all have the ability to lift the front wheels off the ground on the newer machines (with properly sized FELs). Some FELs are able to lift higher than others (with the bucket flat) due to the arrangement of hydraulic pistons which also contributes to digging depth capability. All three brands also have the float feature.

DaveV

 

[Thomas]

Greg,
Having down pressure that lifts the front tires of the ground just a tad, I found out back dragging w/ the FEL does a good job.

Also the down pressure comes in handy lifting the front tires when stuck,and have to fill in the holes. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Looks like Bird cover it very well about the float & lifting the front. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif


Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[glennmac]

bsauter-

Why do you have a 2910 and a 3010? Several people have more than one tractor, but having two that are adjacent in the current lineup seems unusual. I think I remember a post by you in which you expressed a strong preference for the 3010 over the 2910. Just curious.

Glenn

 

[roysallis]

Since I do not have a 4wd the ability to curl the FEL to lift the front end and push the tractor backwards has come in handy for me several times when I have had the back wheels stuck.

 

[bsauter]

Hi Glenn

I don't have the B2910 anymore. I had it for 22 hours and decided I wanted a heavier tractor. It was a huge difference in the feel, comfort and operational capabilities for what I needed even though they are close in HP. I had a couple problems with the B2910 and the dealer and Kubota offered to take it back. I am also much more comfortable with the larger operating deck of the L series. You're right, if I could justify having to tractors I would have kept the B2910 for it's small size and got something like a 3710 but I had to comprimise and go the in between route. Heck, I'd love to have a barn full of Kubota's!!!

Brad, Kubota L3010HST, loader, R4 tires
Pictures at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=179207&a=9183978

 

[glennmac]

I was pontificating yesterday from memory. This morning I played with the 2910. The wheels will lift at all bucket positions. They lift the least, about an inch, when the bucket is at maximum curl. I speculated yesterday that the bottom edge of the bucket would be vertical at about 90% dump. Actually, this happens at about 98% of dump on my FEL.

On a safety point, if you lift your front wheels with the FEL, you should be sure to apply the parking brake after they are lifted. I lift the wheels when I remove and install my 72" mid deck, and I am constantly worried about the tractor coming down when it is lifted. Obviously, setting the parking brake reduces this liklihood. Also, make sure you release the parking brake before you lower the wheels, because the tractor will move backward when the wheels are lowered (and forward, when lifted) with the FEL. If the brakes are locked, the tractor won't be able to move backward properly. You only release the parking brake, of course, when you are back seated on the tractor.

Glenn

 

[W5FL]

Glenn

With my old Massey, the brakes were so bad that pushing the bucket against the ground was the ONLY brakes it had to keep it from moving while hooking up to the 3 point, (The period doesn't work) Unfortunately it had a rear muffler and you nearly choked to death on diesel fumes while you were hooking it up

The geometry is a little different on many tractors and loaders, Everything about a loader is a compromise between depth that it can go below the front wheel ground level, how high it will lift, and how much it will lift, John Deere builds a loader with two seperate positions for the lift cylinders depending on what is most important to you,

My M6800 uses the LA1002 Kubota loader and probably names the positions, but one position raises, one lowers, one dumps, and one rolls the bucket back, I seldom use the float position, but found it useful when the bucket is slightly tipped back from level and you want to drive into the pile as deep as possible at ground level, Unfortunately termonology is not particularly important to me, so if I confuse things, please let me know, The manufacturer's marketing department try to name everything by some dumb terminolgy that they have invented, so someone looking at several different tractors will spend a lot of time trying to figure out several names for gear transmissions including synchro shift, collar shift and lots of similar names,

It is actually predicted that it will rain in Texas this weekend, We can sure use it, Fortunately rain is rain almost everywhere that it is not frozen on the way down! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Harv]

Greg -

I guess it's been explained to death at this point, but I don't want to be left out of the fun. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

My LB400 certainly lifts the front wheels off the ground no matter what position the bucket is in. That silly picture I posted shows wheel-raising in the "flat" position (see attachment). Don't worry that you weren't clear on the loader controls -- I didn't even realize it had a float position 'til I read some posts on this board (so much for my manual-reading retention /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif).

What surprises me now is how often I use both the float and the wheelie. I raise the wheels when a) I'm trying to compress and smooth the soil (or crushed limestone), and b) I want to seriously engage the ground, as in digging a ditch. For the latter, I stand the tractor up on the cutting edge of the bucket (close to 'dumped' position) and then power slowly forward at 'creep' speed. I also found this method works in reverse -- that is, I reach across to the far side of the ditch, stand on the cutting edge of the bucket and drag backwards. This gives better definition to that side of the ditch.

Glenn -
You were very clear in your explanation of bucket positions -- you sure you're a lawyer? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Oh, yeah -- Greg, I know what you mean about the difference between a 2910 and a 3010 (maybe we shouldn't leave off the letter). I was originally confused about the differences between different tractors with similar horsepower. My L2500 has about the same hp as a B2710, but when I saw them in person there was no comparison. L's are simply bigger, heavier machines. I opted for the larger machine 'cuz I know how things shrink when you plop them down in the middle of 42 acres. I was right -- an 'M' wouldn't look out of place in the middle of that property.

Now I'm jealous 'cuz you got the size and the horsepower that I wanted. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[gerard]

Harv,
Sorry if this is obvious but your picture of backblading had an empty bucket so I thought I'd mention it. Next time you want to compress/backblade try getting a full load of material in the bucket and leave it there. This will give you an extra 400-500 lbs of down pressure and be more effective. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Bird]

Gerard, I recall even seeing a manual once that recommended doing your smoothing with a full load of material in the bucket. And you're right, of course, it does give you that extra pressure. The problem is with that comment to "leave it there." When I tried it I always managed to either forget and curl or dump the bucket, or decide to back up too fast, or one thing or another, and spill what I had in the bucket/w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif, so I abandoned that idea./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[Harv]

Gerard -

I thought about putting something in the bucket for weight, but a) with the bucket in the flat position I thought the material would fall out, and b) the material that was in the bucket is what I'm trying to compact.

What you suggest requires forethought and planning. I'm not that advanced yet. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif