need help deciding

[BigKid]

I am in the market for a new CUT and have been looking at all the brands i have available to me. I think all tractors being made today are good machines and they all have their pluses and minuses. I will be trading in my yanmar cbl 40 that i currently have listed for sale on here as well. I have my own landscaping business and have found that i use the loader and 3 point about 99% of the time. The problem i have in the cbl 40 is that it doesn't have much pto hp, and it is very heavy, especially considering the footprint of the smaller tires which leads to some pretty good ruts so that limits my ability to use it for spreading mulch and topsoil when i have to drive across a nice manicured lawn. I know from machines that i have owned in the past that any machine will leave ruts but the bigger wider tires will float much better than what i have now, plus the new machines i am looking at are also lighter in weight. The following are the machines i have looked at and got quotes on.

1 Yanmar LX4500: 45HP/32.5 PTO HP, HST, FEL with SSQA and 72" bucket, grill guard, 2 sets of rear remotes, rear tires filled with beet juice and ballast box (Yanmar recommends both). $28,799 and $27,500 trade in allowance. Dealer is 2 hrs away
2 Kubota L4240: 44HP/35 PTO HP, HST+, FEL with SSQA 72" heavy duty round back bucket with bolt on edge, grill guard,1 set of rear remotes, rear tires filled with beet juice. $30,300 and $25,000 trade in allowance. Dealer is 20 minutes away
3 Mahindra 5035: 50HP/41.5 PTO HP, HST, FEL with SSQA and 72" bucket, grill guard, 1 set of rear remotes, rear tires filled with beet juice. $31,255 and $23,841 trade in allowance. Dealer is 20 minutes away.
4 John Deere 4120: 43HP/35 PTO HP, HST, FEL with SSQA and 73" Material bucket, grill guard, 1 set of rear remotes, rear tires filled with beet juice. $32,314 and 22,500 trade in allowance. Dealer is 20 minutes away.

I am also considering adding 3rd function remote hydraulics to loader for future use of root grapple. I know what numbers look the best on paper but i am looking for opnions on which machine is giving the most for the money. I will spend more if it means getting a better machine, but from what i have personally seen all of them look to be built really well. As i said earlier my primary uses will be loader work, root grapple in the future, and 3 point attatchments which will consist primarily of a rotary cutter,but will also be used for snowblower and rototiller. I am hoping to make a decision by mid week so all opinions are welcomed and greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your help

 

[mjncad]

The forum has no idea where you're located, so that kind of limits the quality of our responses.

Since you're regularly going over manicured lawns, can you use turf tires? I'd also nix the idea of filled tires, and just rely on the ballast box or implement when counterweight is needed to minimize damage to manicured lawns.

Are you in a hilly area or a flat one?

 

[PoorPlowboy]

As close as they are in specs and prices, I would add one more factor. Resale value, since you may be using it in the future as you're using it now. Out of your list, that leaves Orange and Green, in my opinion. Then feature for feature, hst+ and half the difference in cash required ($5300 vs $11000) to make the deal happen leans me towards Kubota.

 

[BigKid]

Sorry about not having my info filled out, that has been taken care of. I have thought about the idea of going to turf tires but i occassionally do property clearing jobs and just feel like the r4's are more puncture resistant. Most of the terrain i am usually on is either flat or gentle hills, no major hills that i have encountered as of yet but they deffinitely do exist in this area so i would have to assume that at some point i might encounter them. I have thought about the resale value and around here just like anywhere it seems that kubota and deere hold there value the best, but because i live in farm country just about any make and model does pretty good in terms of resale. The specs are very close on all of the machines, and at this point i don't think i can go wrong with any of the 4 options. Just wanted a few more sets of eyes to look at the numbers and give feedback as to which they thought would be the best deal, just as you guys have done. Also If anyone has any first hand knowledge from either owning or operating any of the machines i am looking at i welcome that feedback as well. I really appreciate the help guys. keep it coming

 

[Don87]

I didn't look up the operating weight, but the Mahindra's are usually heavier machines. And I also agree with the turf tire idea. If they go out you can get 'industrial turf's' to replace them.

Nokian TRI 2

 

[BuilderML]

Hi Bigkid,
I know someone that had a cub cadet yanmar lx4500, He had installed hyd for front grapple and i also believe rear remotes (1set) if i remember right. I purchased my unit from him. he was great to work with. He still had the unit as of last week around 20-30 hours on it from him playing around on it. price was 21-22k.
he is also on this site. if interested let me know i'll give you his info.He is a stand up guy that i would deal again with. Located in ohio. good luck in your search

 

[TripleR]

No doubt they are all good tractors and I am sure they will all serve you well. I started using the HST+ a few months ago and while initially skeptical, I really find it to be superior to anything I have used previously. I also really like the John Deere 4000 Series; don't know anything about the others than by reputation. Wish I could be of more help.

 

[case245]

my vote would be on the kubota they are light tractors with R3 tires and i would get 3 rear remotes now there nothing worse then need them and not have enough

 

[Gary Fowler]

I cant comment on the tractors but it looks like the JD dealer thinks his tractor is worth $2-5K more than the competitors but that your tractor is worth $5K less. I wouldnt deal with him just on principle. Stick with Kubota for the money, light weight and reputation.
I dont know how well you like the Yanmar but if it is resaleable in your area for a good price and you like it, monetary wise you are good to go there. There is only one Yanmar dealer anywhere close and that is in Memphis Tenn. which is about 3 hours from here, so only thing I have ever seen is a photo. Around here everyone is Kubota or New Holland

 

[BigKid]

I agree with everything that has been said so far. I think the deere 4000 series is a great machine, and while i do think the resale on a 4120 would be better than say for example the yanmar LX4500, would it be good enough to make up the large difference. They want almost 5 thousand more for their machine and they are 5 thousand less on trade in of my cbl 40. Will the deere bring in 10 thousand more in resale value down the road if both machines are the same age and have the same hours on them. I am thinking that resale will be higher but not by 10 thousand. The Kubota is a great machine and has great resale value, and the gap between it and the yanmar is much closer at only a 4 thousand dollar difference between selling price of new tractor and trade in allowance of my machine. The warranty on the kubota falls short of that of mahindra or yanmar but from what i know of kubota i am not worried about that. The mahindra is a very nice looking machine but once again the difference between it and the yanmar is pretty substantial although in terms of specs you are getting more in terms of HP/PTO HP and front end lifting capacity. I just don't know much of anything about mahindra. The reason i keep comparing all of the machines to the yanmar is simply because the yanmar is the cheapest in terms of price, so that sets it apart from the pack when all of the machines are very close in terms of specs. This would be much easier if i lived in an area where i only had access to 1 or 2 different brands, but because of where i live i have access to every brand of tractor you can think of. It deffinitely makes it easier when you get feedback from others. When you look at so many numbers and information it is sometimes very easy to overlook some very important things, and thats where you guys come in. I haven't posted much over the years but have done tons of reading and have learned a lot of valuable information from all on here. Thank you again for all your help and i look forward to even more information over the next few days to help me make a decision.

 

[lew61]

I have been using my L4240 for fel work on a hillside and would not do so without having the rears loaded. This is my first tractor with HST and 4x4 and I am really liking it.

 

[GManBart]

Looking at those prices, and features, reminds me why I bought an LS. 47/38 HP, FEL, HST, 72" bucket, 48" forklift attachment, 2 rear remotes, etc, for $22,250. I'm not seeing another $10k to get the other colors. Of your choices, the Kubota looks like the winner on paper. I'd still go try all of them, just to be sure you're not missing anything. R,

 

[BigKid]

I went out and looked at all the machines again today. I like looking on a sunday when the dealers are closed because there is noone to bother me. I couldn't find much to sway me in any single direction. I am surprised the mahindra doesn't get more attention because it is deffinitely an impressive looking machine, not as popular as kubota or deere but man it sure looks like a beast. The kubota speaks for itself. Built solid and a great reputation, and the HST+ is very nice. I think i can say at this point that the deere is out. It's a nice unit but noway can i justify the cost difference when compared to the others. I am also really impressed by the build quality of the yanmar, but i think the dealer may be a bit high from what i have read on here. If i can get him down to about 28,000 with the addition of 3rd function loader valve and a set of forks it might be a hard deal to pass up. Then again i am also going to go back to kubota and ask for a little more off of the new machine and get a 2nd set of rear remotes as well as 3rd function loader valve. The mahindra dealer has already had to re work his numbers just to get to where he is now so i think getting anything else out of them is next to impossible.. I also get a bad feeling about what it will cost me for other attatchments down the road with the mahindra dealer. I asked him for a price for a ballast box as opposed to filling the tires, he calls me back with a price of 1,000 dollars. I laughed at him and told him he was crazy (which i don't think went over to well), but thats highway robbery for anyone, let alone someone that is going to buy a 30 thousand dollar tractor from you. The yanmar dealer is 2 hrs away but everytime i have e-mailed him he has e-mailed me back very quickly, even after hours, but the kubota dealer has also been around for a very long time and has a great reputation in the area. I am narrowing down my decision and hope to have it down to 1 in the next day or 2. Thank you once again for all the help. Keep the replies coming

 

[mjncad]

Have you actually test driven the machines yet? Although money is important, so is operating comfort and you plan on many hours of seat time so you should get something that feels natural to operate.

From what I've seen of Kubota's, they are built quite well; but I test drove one and the treadle system they use for their HST's was uncomfortable as he!! for me. I don't care if the Kubota was $5,000 cheaper than a comparable Deere, the Kubota's treadle would make operating the tractor miserable for me, and is a deal breaker.

 

[schweizer]

Did you happen to consider the Kioti DK45SE HST. When I bought mine just a few years ago $30k got me a FEL, filled tires, and a backhoe. Of course I think they're heavier than the other brands, which is something you don't want.

 

[Grandad4]

Just wanted to comment about your expectations regarding the weight of these machines. I think you're going to find the units you're considering will end up being darn near as heavy as your current Yanmar with the backhoe removed, particularly when you load the tires and such. There are all kinds of discussions here about what kind of trailer to put these things on, mostly concluding that this size of machine hits the ground in the real world between 5,000 to 6,000 lbs. You're right they will have larger tires and a larger chassis, but I'm just thinking if saving weight is a major reason you're shopping for new equipment, you really won't be doing much of that. If weight is truly important to you, get the dealers to give you a fully loaded weight estimate for each unit including FEL, bucket, an implement of your choice and loaded tires.

 

[BigKid]

Well let me start by once again thanking everyone for all the help in making this decision. Now as to the answers to the lst few replies. Yes i have been on each machine, but the yanmar that was in stock was not HST, but besides that i was able to get a feel for the hydraulics and basic feel of the machine. I will say that the treadle of the kubota was a bit awkward going from the the 2 pedal set up that i have now, but i have spent time on a kubota before and i did start to get used to the treadle after a few days of use, but i do prefer the 2 pedals vs the treadle. In regards to looking at Kioti, i have looked at them but of the 3 dealers i have that are in the area, none of the 3 were willing to take my trade because they said they don't have the market for a construction grade machine, so that was the end of Kioti. As to the weight of the new machine vs what i currently have. Yes i have thought about the weight of what i currently have and what it would be if i removed the backhoe and filled the tires. From what i figured the weight would still be quite a bit more than the machines i am currently lookin at, with the exception of the mahindra which would be about the same. So i am looking at a bigger wider tire on a lighter machine and if i put on turf tires as suggested on here i could use the machine on manicured lawns with much less damage which is my goal. Now to make things even more difficult, i got a call from the deere dealer today and i told him i was not going with deere because the numbers just didn't make sense. He asked where he would need to be to make the deal and i told him atleast 3000 more for my trade and and 1000 more off of his machine. He told me he was going to work on the numbers because he wasn't going to lose a sale to another dealer. He also told me that deere does offer 0% for 72 months but it cost more to take advantage of that plan, but he would cover that difference to make the deal. On top of that he said that their is a special going on and that he could give me 500 off of a 2nd implement such as a box blade, or i could get something such as a york rake for free because he would sell it to me at his cost so the 500 would cover it. Now i have some serious thinking to do. I never expected him to get so aggressive to make the sale. I do have history with him already because i bought my zero turn mower from him as well as all my stihl handhelds so maybe that has something to do with it. Decisions decisions

 

[TripleR]

You sure do have a conundrum, good news is either way you go, you will have a nice machine and be happy.

We own John Deere and Kuobota, my wife hates the two pedal system on the John Deere and it is almost a wash for me with an ever so slight preference for the treadle; definitely not a deal breaker as I am comfortable with either.

 

[Grandad4]

As to the weight of the new machine vs what i currently have. Yes i have thought about the weight of what i currently have and what it would be if i removed the backhoe and filled the tires. From what i figured the weight would still be quite a bit more than the machines i am currently lookin at, with the exception of the mahindra which would be about the same. So i am looking at a bigger wider tire on a lighter machine and if i put on turf tires as suggested on here i could use the machine on manicured lawns with much less damage which is my goal.

Not to belabor the point, but just to reassure myself that I wasn't totally senile and out to lunch, here's what the online spec sheets say, using the Kubota as an example:

L4240: Tractor (3,671) + FEL (1,300) + FEL bucket (322) + tire juice (1,000) = 6,293 lbs
http://www.kubota.ca/en/productdetail.aspx?trail=0|30|37|100|104&prodid=270#tab=2

CBL40 Tractor (7,750) - Backhoe (1,660) + tire juice (800) = 6,890 lbs
YANMAR | CBL40

Couldn't find the weight of the Yannie backhoe, so the above weight is for the one on an L45, a similar 10ft. BH. The CBL40 has smaller tires, therefore less ballast. So I think you're only saving something like 600 lbs on the ground unless you take the FEL off. The other makes would be similar, except the Mahindra, which is really heavy as you noted.

All the best of success with your shopping and haggling, though. You'll have some fine equipment no matter which you choose.

 

[BigKid]

If the cbl 40 had bigger tires the damage to turf and the depth of the ruts would be much less. I have ran a 110TLB and with all conditions being equal the ruts that it left were much less than the cbl 40. Don't get me wrong, the yanmar cbl 40 is an excellent machine. It has done everything i have wanted it to do in terms of excavating and the more i threw at it the more it would do. It surprised me numerous times with its capabilities. The only areas it's lacking a little is the PTO hp. Other than that it has never let me down. The problem is that i used to do alot more construction jobs, and now my foce has shifted to landscaping jobs. One of the reasons for that is because of all the competition around here in terms of excavating. You see ads all the time advertising full size backhoe with operator for 300-400 per day. I used to charge 75 per hour and i thought that was cheap. So with that being said i started advertising more on the landscaping end of things and it has paid off. It just seems kinda pointless to do a mulching job spreading 20 yards of mulch with a wheel barrow when i have a 40 thousand dollar machine sitting in the garage. If i can get a tractor, (even if it is only 500-1000 pounds lighter), with wider tires that will provide better flotation it will get used a lot more, and save my back in the process. The only thing left to do is make a decision, but that seems to be harder than i thought it would be. Will see what happens tomorrow when i meet with the deere dealer again.