Need help deciding what my first tractor should be

[zachm24]

Hey all. Let me first start out by saying I am a new landowner and have come to the easy conclusion that I need to purchase a tractor in order to keep said property in shape. I know virtually nothing about tractors. No one in my family has ever owned one, therefore I have not had the luxury of growing up around anyone with any knowledge. I have spent countless hours on google, forums, and youtube for the past couple months gathering any and all information I can. The basic idea i have at the moment is, I would like to keep it as affordable as possible, but I realize it will still be a sizable investment. I believe something in the category of "compact" tractor should suit what I need taken care of. The property is 16.2 acres, with approximately 4 of those acres being a field that is overgrown with 1-2" saplings and weeds. The other acreage is covered with an even split of what I would consider light and heavy timber growth. The field is my main area of focus for reclaiming. I did want to get a tractor with a loader in order to knock out some heavier but not too heavy trees and fill in a few ditches that seem to hold water for any period of time that the weather isn't unusually dry. I have been leaning more towards flail mowers instead of a standard rotary cutter as I like the fact that they cut closer and are more compact. However, finding one large enough for my applications and preferences has proven to be a little difficult considering when you go bigger on flail cutters, they tend to bump the HP requirement of the tractor into a whole new cost bracket. I have visited the John Deere and New Holland/Massey Ferguson dealer as they are very local. JD wanted to sell me a 3032, but for a hair more cost and a HP boost I was more interested in the 3038e myself. The NH/MF dealer didn't bother showing me all he had to offer. He instead showed me a MF GC1720 and acted like it was the only tractor they sold. I realize a sub compact tractor can suit many for their purposes, but i just feel that a tractor that's only marginally larger than a lawn mower won't do what I need to do. And in any case, the issue of PTO HP comes up with that option. With about 45 minutes of traveling south, I can go to a Mahindra dealer. And 45 minutes north I can go to an LS dealer. I have still not visited the Kubota dealer that is relatively local. So, I apologize if this thread, or type of thread, comes up often. I'm sure it does. As I said I have searched high and low and it mainly seems to be like asking which truck I should buy and you'll have your chevy guys vs your ford guys etc etc. If anyone has any suggestions, testimonials, or general opinions about tractor/implement choices, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[dickfoster]

Welcome to the club. Most of us here started just like you. I know I did. Here's my :2cents: Dealer dealer dealer. You will find that even the best tractor made can be a miserable experience if your dealer is crap and won't give you good service and guidance so shop your local dealers very carefully. If they don't give you much help now you can just imagine how they are going to be when it comes time to get the machine serviced, especially during the warranty period. You'll get a lot of people here saying to buy what they have at least as far as brand but remember what I'm saying about the dealer can take all of that right into the tank. After all that I like my Mahindra but the dealer had a lot to do with that, other than the fact that I don't care of the DPF thing on the others either. The choice of gear/shuttle of HST is largely a matter of personal preference and what you'll be doing with the machine however I did not like the way HST was implemented on the Mahindras I looked at (rocker pedal) so I ended up with a gear machine. Test driving is important so be sure to do it.
I would tend to put price toward the bottom of the list of priorities because this is a long term purchase and the difference is price is usually pretty small percentage wise. Remember the quality is remembered long after the price has been forgotten.
Ask your dealer who takes care of transportation for the warranty work, who pays for delivery etc. This will be a good indicator of how dedicated that dealer is to his customers. Mine also provided a few small freebies as a matter of course like filling the tires, welding a hook to the front bucket etc. As far as the Mahindra brand goes, I like the tractor but I find their aftersales and even presales support to be a bit lacking but so far that has been offset by my local dealer who is about 50 miles away. When I was shopping some dealers showed little to no interest in me or my business so I kept on moving along till I found the one with the lights on. Guess who got to sell me a tractor? I went out shopping for orange but wound up with a red tractor. That's OK, red a prettier color anyway and I can't get any traffic tickets on my own land.

 

[zachm24]

What you're saying makes sense. Just like I bought my truck from a dealer 50 miles away because the one here sucked. It's only logical that a "dealer" of anything needs to be chosen wisely. I believe I'll go visit a few more on Monday. In any case I'll visit Kubota, Mahindra, and LS all before I buy anything. So far, Neither of the dealers I spoke to were rude in any way. The JD man talked to me for maybe 15 minutes and gave me a few price sheets. But the NH/MF guy was just bent on showing off that little MF sub compact. I realize I'm 24 and probably look 18 at best. I realize I don't look the part of a person who is serious about making big purchases such as this. But at least when I ask to see another tractor, don't tell me I don't need it. That just seems to be costing himself more money with a lesser sale. But that was the story when I bought my boat and truck. Several dealers missed on a sale since I guess they wouldn't take me seriously. Anyway, thank you for your input. I'll definitely talk to the dealers and have a few more questions to ask them now.

 

[TripleR]

What kind of budget are you working with?

Off the top of my head I can think of probably 25-30 models that would work.

Bare minimum, in my opinion, would be a 25HP CUT with an HST with FEL. I find for new owners a good dealer is really important. HST vs gear is never ending, I use both.

I would rent something for a weekend in the size you think you want or as close as you can and that will help more than anything any of us can say.

 

[zachm24]

I'm leaning more toward a HST just for sheer simplicity (of use that is). 25 HP sounds like a good minimum HP, however I have been trying to pair up a decent sized flail cutter with a tractor that has adequate PTO HP for it and that has proven to be a headache in and of itself. FEL is a must for me also. I was hoping to stay under 25k with being under 20 very nice if find good quality for that cost. 25k is my ceiling though. I could go higher but I am the type that sets a limit and I always tend to find what I'm looking for eventually if I stick with it.

 

[TripleR]

If price is paramount forget Kubota, John Deere etc. Go look at LS first then you'll know what I mean. I don't own one, but you get a lot for your money and the make many of the CUTS for Case and New Holland that get rebadged.

Sorry, but my knowledge of flails is not much. I looked at them and the price, hp requirements plus maintenance was not encouraging.

 

[zachm24]

Well, the price of the JD 3038e was 19k flat before taxes and all. But I'm far from sure of anything at this point. I've looked at many flail mower brands and so far Caroni is the most affordable one I can find with good reviews. Thanks for your input!

 

[TripleR]

We have two Caroni finish mowers that have been used and abused for years; good product line for the price.

Good luck.

 

[motownbrowne]

A Kubota L2501HST would fit your needs just fine. I think you can buy one with a loader and a couple of implements for about $22k. They also have really cheap financing right now. Worth looking at. Lots of bang for your buck, low tech emissions system, simple no-frills tractor. It'll run a 5' or light 6' bush hog, pull a 6' box blade, run a finish mower, whatever you need. If you want more HP, you can spend more money and get a more complicated emissions system, but 2501 is a bit of a sweet spot in the lineup right now.

 

[Wagtail]

G'day Mate and welcome to TBN from Downunder.

You're going about purchasing your first tractor the right way = research and setting realistic goals. You've also discovered that 'local' dealerships have their own, shall we say, attitudes. The key is to find the one that supports you after your purchase [parts & service]... local knowledge (talking to neighbours) as to reputation + your own experience at the various dealerships will weed out the unsupportive ones. Sales and the Service Departments are two separate sides of the dealership.

It sounds like, so far, the local JD dealership wants your business AND wants to sell you the tractor you need (as opposed to what's "flavour of the month"). By all means check out the other 'colours'.

Here's what Tractordata.com has to say about the 3038e; TractorData.com John Deere 338E tractor information

This website is a great asset for comparing tractors... bookmark it.

 

[MossRoad]

Welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

As others have mentioned, it might be a very good idea to rent a machine to see how you like it. Money well spent. Also, if you can, find someone with a tractor and spend an afternoon with them talking about what it will do, how well it does, pros and cons.... doesn't matter what size or brand it is, just get some feel for how things work.

As for HST transmissions.... good choice! There's MANY threads on here about the pros and cons of that, and HST vs Gear transmissions.... just do some searches, grab a beverage (or two) and read for several days.

We have about 20 acres that we maintain. We started off with a used, huge industrial tractor-loader to get the large tasks knocked out, then sold it and downsized to a much smaller, yet more practical unit for maintaining the place. Lots of ways to go. Used has its pros and cons. So does new.

Don't skip the Kubota or Kioti brands. Give them all test drives. Good luck in your search.

Question about why a flail mower VS a rotary? Just curious.

 

[Oldpath05]

If I was able to get enough presidential help in buying a tractor, first thing I'd look for is, if there is such a thing, a 4 wheel drive tractor vs. 3 wheel drive. The next most most important thing for me myself and I is, engine noise, pto engagement, ground speed pto, pto power. For me the most important acc. is a FEL,
then if President's are really with me, there's the luxury acc. a cab with heat/ac and satellite radio, if I have to I can make my own cup holders.

 

[wcampbell47]

A Kubota L2501HST would fit your needs just fine. I think you can buy one with a loader and a couple of implements for about $22k. They also have really cheap financing right now. Worth looking at. Lots of bang for your buck, low tech emissions system, simple no-frills tractor. It'll run a 5' or light 6' bush hog, pull a 6' box blade, run a finish mower, whatever you need. If you want more HP, you can spend more money and get a more complicated emissions system, but 2501 is a bit of a sweet spot in the lineup right now.

The L2501 does not require DEF at present. My L3901 does not either but I do have to do the regen if I put around under 2000 RPM's very long. You definitely want 4 wheel drive with a front loader. Most L model Kubota's qualify for $0 down and 0% interest.

 

[zachm24]

Welcome to TBN! :thumbsup:

Question about why a flail mower VS a rotary? Just curious.

First off let me say thanks to all the replies to this point. More information gained and more to be applied before the sale goes through. I'm taking my time and probably will be patient and wait for spring. No need to rush the purchase when the weeds aren't growing. As for flail vs rotary, I paid a co worker to bush hog my field first thing. He got probably 60% of it before he busted a hydraulic line and had to pack up. But it was more than enough to show me what a rotary cutter will give me. If I can help it, I don't want to have to make more than one pass on an area. The rotary cutter tends to leave the grass and sapling stumps a little above ankle high. Walking through the field is more like wading through. And since I will be setting up a shooting range in the field, many miles will be walked over the years. From what I've read, flails tend to mulch everything in their path and leave a cut that rivals a finishing mower with the correct knives. Some folks have even claimed that they sold their rotary and finishing mower and now kill 2 birds with one stone using a flail. Also they don't leave windrows. They more so tend to let the clippings/chips fall evenly in place along the cutting path. Additionally, they are much more compact than a rotary. Decreasing the turning radius will likely help me save some of my bigger trees as I will be able to cut between them rather than have to knock out the ones I can't swing around with the longer length of a rotary. Almost every review I've read from a flail cutter owner has been positive. Many of the "I bought this flail and will never go back to rotary" types of reviews. And if you spend the money to buy one that realistically suits your needs (light, med. heavy duty, etc.) then they can handle anything and everything a rotary cutter can. Again this is just what I have read from many, many sources, but there seems to be no trade offs with the flail. Everything you'd want in a rotary plus more.

 

[murse72]

also check different dealers for the same brand. i had three kubota dealers in 1hr of me. The closest one i think didn't want to sell any tractors. the sales guy was out of town for 3 days and no one else could help me. the next one 30mins way the sales guy seemed like any idiot or high on something . looked like they sold more of the cut and scut there. The one an hour away sold more utility and agi stuff than anything. they were the most help full. they delivered for free and when i went to fill the tires they had already done it had some issues with my bushhog and the loaders arms on the tractor. he came and pick both up last friday to fix it. no charge for pick up. i think i got a good dealer when i got mine

 

[gladehound]

16 acres, a 4 acre field to re-claim, a shooting range to build, 12 acres of mixed woods to manage, 25K max budget in Danville (is that Danville, PA?)... does that describe the task list or are there other things to consider? I didn't see anything about snow?

Is budget the only limitation on tractor size? Most the tractors discussed have been on what I'd consider the smaller end of the range for your type of situation. Certainly workable size tractors, but my guess is that in a short amount of time you will be wanting for more tractor if your first one is in the 25-30hp range. If there is no reason not to have a 40+hp tractor, I'd consider upsizing from the start. Especially if man handing (or tractor handing) trees is on the menu.

25K is a decent budget if you shop brands like LS and Kioti. You should be able to go bigger than those discussed so far in this thread, especially if you take your time shopping and perhaps find some left over tractors that dealers are trying to move at cost. I did this in Nov of 2014 and found a 2013 45hp Kioti that was being used by the dealer to move trailers (also owned a trailer storage business). Although the tractor was over a year old, since it had never left the dealer they can sell it as new meaning you get the full warrantee. The tractor had 46 hours on it so they did the 50 hour service at no cost to me before delivering the tractor. It didn't hurt that it was by far the most customer oriented dealer I had visited. By comparison, my local JD dealer could only sell me a ~25 hp 2000 series tractor for the same budget.

I like that you are taking your time and shopping now to buy in Spring. If you shop all your options, you'll know a good deal when you see it and wont rush into anything. However, be mindful that the best deals are sometimes at the end of the year when dealers don't want to hold certain tractors over slower winter selling season. And Spring may be the most expensive time to buy a tractor.

You mentioned pushing over some trees. Please be careful of widow makers (any part of the tree that could come down on you). And definitely invest in some sort of Falling Object Protection System (FOPS).

HST vs Gear - HST is certainly very convenient and easy to master, especially for loader work, but it comes at a price. That price is less model selection and well... price. There are some gear only models that are in a very different size and hp range than similar price HST models. So weigh this decision carefully because you are trading convenience for size and power. Only you can know which is best for you and as others have mentioned, this is a hotly debated topic and there are many who are firmly entrenched on each side of the debate.

Another way to maximize your value is to buy used. Tractors last much longer than cars and a tractor that is only a few years old is just at the start of its life. This option also puts you in a good position to resell the machine if it doesn't fit your needs since you should lose next to nothing in depreciation. (I bought my first used tractor for $8,200 and sold it 8 years and 400 hours later for $7,000 + $1,000 worth of free metal fabrication as part of the deal)

Good luck with your search. It sounds like you are a thoughtful buyer and I wish you the best of luck. You will find a wealth of knowledge at TBN and a lot of differing opinions. The best thing you can do is a thorough assessment of how you will use the tractor now and in the future and let that guide your decision.

 

[2ndhalf]

I agree with you that you need to at least to get a compact. Tell the MF dealer to show you the compacts or your going to go buy a Kubota. You will be happy with either. I agree with taking your time though... I would be looking at all all options. Tell them all you will buy on 12/31. You will get a good deal.

 

[MultiMow]

I have to agree with Moss on this one.

Buy an old yet servicable unit for your reclaim work. You can pickup a decent used unit with an FEL/BH for around $8k (cheaper, if you shop hard).

This way, you can focus your funds of the large investment in more long term needs. I can promise you, it'll make for a MUCH better experience, return on investment, and overall satisfaction down the road.

My best example of this I often use when locating/consulting equipment for others, is tire selection and equipment size. I see it every day and all too often... someone will buy a 45-50hp tractor with ag tires or R4 industrial treads and a mower for property maintenance. While it may be an appropriate purchase for reclamation, you RECLAIM your property once... you MAINTAIN it for the rest of your life.

After your wet/low-traction areas have been drained and conditioned, you'll likely have no use for the added traction of ag/R4 tires... and tight maneuvers with said tires will yield results that'll have your finish mower collecting dust, and the added purchase of a dedicated lawn mower.

After a thorough reclaim, you'll find that 90% of your usage will be mowing, with the other 9% being loader work, etc... which you will find turf tires far more favorable.

Modern turf tires may look the same as they did 40yrs ago... but they are FAR more capable than they used to be. So think considerably about long term functionality before spending big money on a new machine. Not only will you see more use and enjoyments out of the tractor, but it can can pay dividends in avoiding the added cost and maintenance of additional equipment (lawn mower).

A little off subject here, but I'd like to address your reclaim operation and choice of mower as well.

Reclaim:

A carefully planned reclaiming operation SHOULD drastically reduce/change your time and equipment requirements for prolonged maintenance. If you properly drain/condition turf and traction areas and clearance limbs for the ROPS/cab... you'll find that a 25-30hp 4wd tractor with turf tires will likely suit your needs just fine.

Flail mower selection:

#1- most power ratings for flail mowers are for worst case scenario... mowing uphill/etc.

#2- Peruzzo has a great line of flail mowers which are considerably more efficient than other offerings... requiring less PTO horsepower

#3- TriMax units are pricey... but they're well worth it. Many of their units can be used in both rough AND finish cut applications, as can Peruzzo... but the Trimax design lends better finish results, which is what you'll be using more often after reclaim. They are also easier to setup for either application, thanks to their quick adjustment for the rear baffle.

I too, prefer the added maneuverability and capability of a flail mower... so you won't hear any arguments from me on that decision.

The biggest thing I can't stress enough is short term vs long term usage. Minimizing your investment for the needs of today, can help you maximize your investment AND enjoyment/satisfaction for the tomorrows that come after.

 

[zachm24]

16 acres, a 4 acre field to re-claim, a shooting range to build, 12 acres of mixed woods to manage, 25K max budget in Danville (is that Danville, PA?)... does that describe the task list or are there other things to consider? I didn't see anything about snow?

Danville, VA. Pittsylvania county technically. What you listed above is the task list to a T. Nothing else to really consider. We MIGHT get one "good" snow per year. 2 on an unusually wet winter. And a good snow by our standards is a foot or a shade over. I won't have many purposes snow related except maybe scrape the driveway once or twice per year.

Instead of making multiple replies with quotes, I'll try to address what's stuck in my mind from the most recent replies. I have been shopping the used market as well. I have looked within a 100 mile radius to see what was out there. It's mostly 1930s-50s gas tractors that have the usual issues of old equipment. I'm not afraid of having to turn a wrench, but the issue i see is a parts market that is virtually exhausted. As for tractors a few years old, there's something about folks in this area where they grossly overprice what they are selling. It's one thing if the price is negotiable, but to throw a price tag of 15k on a tractor that is 8 years old, and is a model I can buy comparable to for 20k now, my interest dwindles immediately. However, I have not given up on the used market. As was the case with my boat, I find more peace of mind in shopping new than used. I know most people are honest when selling this sort of equipment, but I do not want to inherit someone else's problems. It's a large investment to bust on. However, I have not given up on the used market with that said. Safety is a paramount concern for me. In my line of work, the principle of safety has been beaten into my head as it is, so I take the time to consider all possible hazards that I can. In the case of widowmakers, I will be vigilant for them. However, the majority of the trees I wish to knock out are not excessively large in height/diameter. But they are far too much for any mower to handle. The property was entirely clear cut in 2008. There is probably 5-10% of the original timber growth still there, which is still a rather sizable amount. All of those trees are staying as I enjoy having those larger trees. The land has come a long way in 8 years. If growth continues at the rate it has, you will not be able to tell logging ever happened in the area in another 8 years. The trees I wish to get rid of are at a size that puts them just over the threshold for any mower to handle. I've seen videos of people taking comparable sized trees out with ease with a compact tractor with FEL. Most trees are not extremely tall, however if I find one in question, I will use the chainsaw to cut it down, then remove the stumps with the tractor. In any case, FOP isn't a bad idea at all. The question of tires. I believe AG tires are likely overkill. Especially once the land is back in shape. I was leaning more toward industrial as it seems like a happy medium. The field is actually a flood plain for the creek on the back border of the property. It will take a lot of rain to make it crest, but it has happened a time or 2 over the last several years according to the neighbors. The creek recedes rather quickly, but it takes 1-2 weeks with no additional rain for the affected areas to dry completely. I do not plan to be out there when the property is swampy like that. But you never know when a must do situation will arise. That being said, 4WD is a requirement. There will be no negotiating for 2WD. To the gentleman that spoke of flail cutters, thanks for that info as well. I will check into those brands and see what they have. I had a feeling that the HP requirement was higher on the spec sheet than the real world requires within reason. As I've heard of people technically being 5HP under the recommendation, but seeing no issues in practical applications. I will do my best to find a mower tractor combo that fits according to spec. Anything less I will take on a case by case basis and make sure, only by firsthand experience shared by someone who's been there. Thank you all for your input. I've learned more with virtually every reply and I'll take all advice into consideration in my buying adventure. As far as I'm concerned this thread is wide open until it is buried and forgotten in the forums. Keep the replies coming as long as you'd like. I will read them all and consider what you all have to say. Thanks again!

 

[dickfoster]

Danville, VA. Pittsylvania county technically. What you listed above is the task list to a T. Nothing else to really consider. We MIGHT get one "good" snow per year. 2 on an unusually wet winter. And a good snow by our standards is a foot or a shade over. I won't have many purposes snow related except maybe scrape the driveway once or twice per year.

Instead of making multiple replies with quotes, I'll try to address what's stuck in my mind from the most recent replies. I have been shopping the used market as well. I have looked within a 100 mile radius to see what was out there. It's mostly 1930s-50s gas tractors that have the usual issues of old equipment. I'm not afraid of having to turn a wrench, but the issue i see is a parts market that is virtually exhausted. As for tractors a few years old, there's something about folks in this area where they grossly overprice what they are selling. It's one thing if the price is negotiable, but to throw a price tag of 15k on a tractor that is 8 years old, and is a model I can buy comparable to for 20k now, my interest dwindles immediately. However, I have not given up on the used market. As was the case with my boat, I find more peace of mind in shopping new than used. I know most people are honest when selling this sort of equipment, but I do not want to inherit someone else's problems. It's a large investment to bust on. However, I have not given up on the used market with that said. Safety is a paramount concern for me. In my line of work, the principle of safety has been beaten into my head as it is, so I take the time to consider all possible hazards that I can. In the case of widowmakers, I will be vigilant for them. However, the majority of the trees I wish to knock out are not excessively large in height/diameter. But they are far too much for any mower to handle. The property was entirely clear cut in 2008. There is probably 5-10% of the original timber growth still there, which is still a rather sizable amount. All of those trees are staying as I enjoy having those larger trees. The land has come a long way in 8 years. If growth continues at the rate it has, you will not be able to tell logging ever happened in the area in another 8 years. The trees I wish to get rid of are at a size that puts them just over the threshold for any mower to handle. I've seen videos of people taking comparable sized trees out with ease with a compact tractor with FEL. Most trees are not extremely tall, however if I find one in question, I will use the chainsaw to cut it down, then remove the stumps with the tractor. In any case, FOP isn't a bad idea at all. The question of tires. I believe AG tires are likely overkill. Especially once the land is back in shape. I was leaning more toward industrial as it seems like a happy medium. The field is actually a flood plain for the creek on the back border of the property. It will take a lot of rain to make it crest, but it has happened a time or 2 over the last several years according to the neighbors. The creek recedes rather quickly, but it takes 1-2 weeks with no additional rain for the affected areas to dry completely. I do not plan to be out there when the property is swampy like that. But you never know when a must do situation will arise. That being said, 4WD is a requirement. There will be no negotiating for 2WD. To the gentleman that spoke of flail cutters, thanks for that info as well. I will check into those brands and see what they have. I had a feeling that the HP requirement was higher on the spec sheet than the real world requires within reason. As I've heard of people technically being 5HP under the recommendation, but seeing no issues in practical applications. I will do my best to find a mower tractor combo that fits according to spec. Anything less I will take on a case by case basis and make sure, only by firsthand experience shared by someone who's been there. Thank you all for your input. I've learned more with virtually every reply and I'll take all advice into consideration in my buying adventure. As far as I'm concerned this thread is wide open until it is buried and forgotten in the forums. Keep the replies coming as long as you'd like. I will read them all and consider what you all have to say. Thanks again!

As far a used machines go, I started out shopping for used tractors but quickly found that anything without a huge amount of time on it costed almost the same as new so there was no point in shopping used machines any further. Even if you manage to find something with reasonable hours at a reasonable price, it is doubtful that it will be equipped with the implements and attachments for your needs so then you'd have yet another problem to addressed. It's much easier to get things like a backhoes and loaders on the tractor when it's new rather than add them on later. Implements like mowers and box blades easier to add later on. Also don't discount the value of the warranty that comes with a new machine. What may seem cheaper initially may actually cost you more not so far down the road.