Nebraska tractor tests(Kubota)
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gotcha
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I hear your question and by the number of 230 something that has read this thread hear ya, but what does it all mean. Why should it be there and not any other place to get true numbers???CaptainQ said:
The Gotcha Man
Kubota does the equivalet test in Japan and does not want to pay the Nebraska folks to test it again. Or so was posted here in the past.
Personal experience is that Kubota is nearly always conservative on specs. If they were full of puff, that would be out there loud and clear. It isn't. Take that for what it is worth.
Better yet, demo a Nebraska tested tractor and a Kubota that is spec'ed out just below and just above it and perform identical tasks and see for yourself.
jb
Personal experience is that Kubota is nearly always conservative on specs. If they were full of puff, that would be out there loud and clear. It isn't. Take that for what it is worth.
Better yet, demo a Nebraska tested tractor and a Kubota that is spec'ed out just below and just above it and perform identical tasks and see for yourself.
jb
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
The Nebraska tests are really ment for large farm tractors, its not really a program for CUT's. I've also heard from other vendors (not Kubota) that Deere funds most of the program and they feel that they get preferential treatment. Its very expensive to get a tractor tested, and there is a queue of several months to get a machine run though. I'm not sure how long this program will last yet, there has been legislation to ax it several times but its never gone though. There has also been talk of Nebraska accepting the test results of the other international testing labs. For some reason they refuse to do this, Nebraska is the exception to what the rest of the world does.
MessickFarmEqu said:
How come on their website some of the testing locations show some university in Italy? Are they performed by the Nebraska, just on location?
for example from the TN70DA test, qoute, "Location of tests: Alma Mater Studiorum, University
Di Bologna, Via Gandolfi, 19-40057, Cadriano,
Bologna, Italy"
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
maybe they are taking results from some other labs now, I know for a long time thats been an issue.
David Cockey
Bronze Member
NE Tractor Test Laboratory
"The University of Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory is the officially designated tractor testing station for the United States and tests tractors according to the codes of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). Twenty-nine countries adhere to the tractor test codes (including non-OECD members: China, India, the Russian Federation, and Serbia), with active tractor test stations in approximately 25 of those countries. The OECD codes require that tractors be tested in the country of manufacture. Reciprocity agreements with the codes require that once an OECD test report is officially approved, it must be accepted by all participating countries."
"The University of Nebraska Tractor Test Laboratory is the officially designated tractor testing station for the United States and tests tractors according to the codes of the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). Twenty-nine countries adhere to the tractor test codes (including non-OECD members: China, India, the Russian Federation, and Serbia), with active tractor test stations in approximately 25 of those countries. The OECD codes require that tractors be tested in the country of manufacture. Reciprocity agreements with the codes require that once an OECD test report is officially approved, it must be accepted by all participating countries."
N80
Super Member
It looks like they are now coordinating with labs outside the US:
Tractor Test Laboratory organization
But you will also notice that one of the boxes in the middle of this organization charts is 'US Tractor Manufacturers.' I have no idea what that means but it raises red flags in my mind. The organization chart also looks pretty complex.
I'm sure its the skeptic in me, but it is easy to see how there might be quite a few competing influences (read:conflicts of interest).
I can see how Kubota might not want to play ball with them. Especially since it is primarily aimed at ag tractors.
I think the only way for an organization to be above suspicion is for it to be totally autonomous, accept no advertising and provide no endorsements. Like Consumer Reports. I would guess that their organizational chart has one box.
I'm also not sure why this process has to be so complex. I understand that testing at the drawbar is the most important figure for a farmer and that many factors can influence this. It seems to me (naively I'm sure) that testing horsepower and torque at the PTO output shaft and at the rear axle would give sufficient data and would be much easier to test.
Tractor Test Laboratory organization
But you will also notice that one of the boxes in the middle of this organization charts is 'US Tractor Manufacturers.' I have no idea what that means but it raises red flags in my mind. The organization chart also looks pretty complex.
I'm sure its the skeptic in me, but it is easy to see how there might be quite a few competing influences (read:conflicts of interest).
I can see how Kubota might not want to play ball with them. Especially since it is primarily aimed at ag tractors.
I think the only way for an organization to be above suspicion is for it to be totally autonomous, accept no advertising and provide no endorsements. Like Consumer Reports. I would guess that their organizational chart has one box.
I'm also not sure why this process has to be so complex. I understand that testing at the drawbar is the most important figure for a farmer and that many factors can influence this. It seems to me (naively I'm sure) that testing horsepower and torque at the PTO output shaft and at the rear axle would give sufficient data and would be much easier to test.
radman1
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Kubota is beginning to have some tractors tested at the NE test lab. Several models have been tested and more are to come. The lab tests fuel comsumption, drawbar and pto hp, 3 pt lift capacity, hydraulic pressure and flow, weight and other parameters. Tests try to be standardized to type of fuel, air temp and humidity. Tractors are suppose to be broke in by the manufacture and ready to go. No adjustments are allowed once testing begins.
gotcha
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Man, I have no idea what the heck you guys are all talking about, but I'm sure glad I stopped in and gave it a kick start after it sat for 4 days without a sole stopping in and commenting on the topic. If it continues a little longer I might get to know more about testing tractors out in Nebraska.
The Gotcha Man
The Gotcha Man
Z-Michigan
Veteran Member
It'd really be nice if the tests could be standardized, by OECD or whoever. I've looked up OECD tests of Kioti's and their results were almost useless/meaningless. The NE tractor test lab results are thorough and, IMHO, useful. But I see no reason the same test couldn't be done in various labs around the world, and done once for all markets.
No knock on Kubota, which makes good tractors, but some brands that seem equally good in marketing have WAY different results in NE tractor testing when you compare (1) rated specs to tested specs, and (2) fuel consumption in the lab.
No knock on Kubota, which makes good tractors, but some brands that seem equally good in marketing have WAY different results in NE tractor testing when you compare (1) rated specs to tested specs, and (2) fuel consumption in the lab.
They've been testing tractors for at least the last 60 years, I doubt it'll be going away anytime soon. Whenever you look at horsepower or fuel economy numbers for a car, those numbers were achieved after following a specific test procedure that is the same between manufacturers. Because of this you can look at a Kia brochure and compare the horsepower and fuel economy numbers to a Chevy. (A new horsepower test procedure was rolled out in 2007, some cars horsepower numbers went up, others went down). Numbers like payload and towing capacity are still done by each individual manufacture, who probably use different standards (there is talk of a universal test procedure in the future, because of a lot of 'inflated' numbers being advertised for 1/2 ton trucks).
ALL figures in tractor brochures are determined by each manufacturer, with their own testing procedures. So the way things are now you can't reliably compare advertised numbers. The OECD (Nebraska being the US test location) is the only place I know of to get a fair comparison between tractors. I've seen Kubota/JD/NH etc. all fail to meet advertised specs in the Nebraska tests. Being from that area, I think the reason Kubota doesn't have many tractors tested is that farm country is not a big market for them. Their key market is compact and utility tractors, not ag tractors. Having grown up in western Iowa and seen thousands of tractors, I never saw a Kubota until I moved to Oklahoma! I'm sure as they expand their productline upwards they will get more models tested.
ALL figures in tractor brochures are determined by each manufacturer, with their own testing procedures. So the way things are now you can't reliably compare advertised numbers. The OECD (Nebraska being the US test location) is the only place I know of to get a fair comparison between tractors. I've seen Kubota/JD/NH etc. all fail to meet advertised specs in the Nebraska tests. Being from that area, I think the reason Kubota doesn't have many tractors tested is that farm country is not a big market for them. Their key market is compact and utility tractors, not ag tractors. Having grown up in western Iowa and seen thousands of tractors, I never saw a Kubota until I moved to Oklahoma! I'm sure as they expand their productline upwards they will get more models tested.
N80
Super Member
Right, but if I'm Mr. Kubota and I'm probably the most successful tractor seller in the US without getting my tractors tested.....well, I don't have much reason to subject my machines to testing done in a different country, especially when that organization includes some type of influence or at least co-operation by 'US Tractor Manufacturers'.....who just happen to be my direct (and very unhappy) competition. I would simply let customer satisfaction speak for itself, which has apparently been working.
In addition, of Kubotas line of tractors I'd bet the smallest of them are the best selling and much of what the Nebraska tests test for is pretty much irrelevant. Even at current fuel prices, who cares what kind of 'mileage' a BX 1850 gets?
If and when the marketing value of the Nebraska tests becomes meaningful to Kubota, they'll play ball. And if they are going to let some of their machines be tested now, then that time may be here. If Mahindra and Kioti are playing the Nebraska game, Kubota may have to as well to stay competative.
But do you think JD or NH would submit their machines to test by an organization that had 'Nippon Tractor Manufactures' in the center of their organizational structure?
In addition, of Kubotas line of tractors I'd bet the smallest of them are the best selling and much of what the Nebraska tests test for is pretty much irrelevant. Even at current fuel prices, who cares what kind of 'mileage' a BX 1850 gets?
If and when the marketing value of the Nebraska tests becomes meaningful to Kubota, they'll play ball. And if they are going to let some of their machines be tested now, then that time may be here. If Mahindra and Kioti are playing the Nebraska game, Kubota may have to as well to stay competative.
But do you think JD or NH would submit their machines to test by an organization that had 'Nippon Tractor Manufactures' in the center of their organizational structure?
N80
Super Member
Cargun, in your comparison to car testing I have a couple of thoughts. First, even though the mpg testing might be standardized, the only thing that has been standard about it (in my experience) is that I never had any vehicle perform as well as the numbers provided. The point is not even to question the standard or how they do the test. The point is, when that test doesn't coincide with practical experience then the value of the test is decreased and relegated, as our mpg numbers are, to marketing hype.
Second, as far as hp in autos. Where are they testing this? At the flywheel? I hope not, because flywheel horsepower has little or nothing to do with actual performance.
I don't mention these two things to quibble. I'm simply pointing out that if the testing doesn't impact practical use or experience, or that is heavily enfluenced by lobbying entities such as the manufacturers, then many will see such tests as an uneven playing field. Kubota may feel this way.
But I think the real issue is the 40 hp limit. I'd be curious to know 1) what percentage of Kubotas models have more than 40hp at the PTO? and 2) what percentage of their market share is composed of those tractors?
Around here, on real farms, JD and NH are the rule, but you do see some Kubotas. But the local JD dealer tells me most of his sales are in CUTS and lawnmowers. Do you think Kubota is trying to tap into an Ag market that already seems kind of stagnant? Maybe so. If so, they may need to submit to Neb testing to obtain legitimacy.
Second, as far as hp in autos. Where are they testing this? At the flywheel? I hope not, because flywheel horsepower has little or nothing to do with actual performance.
I don't mention these two things to quibble. I'm simply pointing out that if the testing doesn't impact practical use or experience, or that is heavily enfluenced by lobbying entities such as the manufacturers, then many will see such tests as an uneven playing field. Kubota may feel this way.
But I think the real issue is the 40 hp limit. I'd be curious to know 1) what percentage of Kubotas models have more than 40hp at the PTO? and 2) what percentage of their market share is composed of those tractors?
Around here, on real farms, JD and NH are the rule, but you do see some Kubotas. But the local JD dealer tells me most of his sales are in CUTS and lawnmowers. Do you think Kubota is trying to tap into an Ag market that already seems kind of stagnant? Maybe so. If so, they may need to submit to Neb testing to obtain legitimacy.
JerryG
Super Member
L
LarryRB
Guest
someone here posted if not tested, then not sold, How can this be? Certainly doesn't sound like free market to me.,
LarryRB said:
Who said "free market" and what definition?
Nebraska is free to tack on any requirement they want to as long as it doesn't contradict a federal statute. And, any tractor can be sold in Nebraska as long as they have them tested. Much like electronics and electrical devices need UL certs.
jb
