My property being confiscated by the feds

[keegs]

My brother retired to Florida on property considered by many of his neighbors to be "the mountain". He says he's 18' above sea level.

 

[toddbailey]

OK, I have cooled down some....

I have had insurance for $355 a year since 8/07 (house completed 6/17). This is the preferred rate for zone X. It went two years with no comment, then I got a letter saying the carrier had changed but coverage was the same. Then the date of the renewal got close last year and I had not heard anything from the insurance co. I called and they said I needed to "recertify" the information. I sent them a copy of my survey showing the house NOT in the flood zone and they renewed the policy.

I asked what the rate would be if the house was in zone A and the answer was "more than 4 thousand". I checked rates today on the internet and it appeared for house and contents the rate would be $2700, but only $1700 for house without contents. Thats for $250K maximum coverage, which would be just about what the house could be rebuilt for right now (but probably not 10 years from now).

I fired off a letter to my congressman Ralph Hall, whom I have supported my entire voting life. I was much more civil than the tone I have shown on my rant in this thread. I doubt I will hear anything other than a thank you for the letter and that they will look into FEMA and blah blah blah.

I don't blame the lender at all. What I don't understand is why should I have to pay to do the job FEMA should have done? If I built where I did because of the incorrect maps they provided why do I now have to pay for their error?

I did more research and it does appear that perhaps I could be grandfathered on my rates as I have had uninterrupted coverage since 8/2/07 and the map change was effective 9/29/10. I just don't have confidence FEMA is going to do the right thing based on the conversations I have had with them so far.

The house was placed based on two things: First, it was the obvious high spot although near the creek (which is why I got flood ins although I can't see it ever getting that high). Second, the surveyor drew the FEMA lines on my survey based on the measurements from their maps. No elevations were done because there are no points of reference. They would have to survey from my place to miles away to figure out how much higher it actually is to what they call the flood zone. Not only did we build outside that zone, but we put about 36" of fill and built on that. The problem is the cost of the engineering required to accompany the form to be submitted to FEMA to get them to change the map on my property.

You can bet that I will in fact use this information at my next property tax hearing. So what if I get the value way down, then when I'm old and need to sell out I will have a real hard time selling a flood zone property that the county has acknowledged is not worth much.

you need to contact a local Land Surveying company WITH KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERENCE in doing floodway work have the surveyor check the elevations on your property to determine if your property is in or out of the floodplain based on the ACTUAL elevations on the CURRENT FEMA map if your property is not then have the surveyor do a LOMR (letter of map revision) this will change the offical flood map. This will be costly but no where near the 23 grand quoted by the orig firm!

 

[riptides]

i simpathize....


When mother nature decides to kick in, those maps may provide some insight, but the water will go to where it goes.

The flood plain/time labels are just theory. Unfortunate that we have to pay for it.

Part of my property is on a flood plain. Recorded history and documentation from generations makes no note of water levels ever reaching the "designated" area.

People always move to elevations, but what about man made obstructions or newer natural obstructions influencing the "new" flood plain?

 

[Jim Thompson]

you need to contact a local Land Surveying company WITH KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERENCE in doing floodway work have the surveyor check the elevations on your property to determine if your property is in or out of the floodplain based on the ACTUAL elevations on the CURRENT FEMA map if your property is not then have the surveyor do a LOMR (letter of map revision) this will change the offical flood map. This will be costly but no where near the 23 grand quoted by the orig firm!

This is exactly what I did about 4 years ago with my property and it cost me nothing but the price of a postage stamp. I went to the surveyor who did the survey when we bought the property 19 years ago. I would have gladly paid and offered to do so. They even wrote the letter/ filled out the form requesting the revision. Whoever did your last survey just may be your new best friend.

Jim

 

[dmccarty]

The quoted price for the survey seems real high even with having to go back to a known point....

Have you priced out other survey companies?

With the professional grade survey GPS stations I would be shocked if they cannot come out and give you an accurate reading on the house elevation.

Having professionally generated data to compare against the FEMA maps helps your case.

Is there a website/mailing list for people in your county? How about a county newspaper? Surely you are not alone in being hit by the FEMA map changes. We have a privately run website and mailing list in my county. If a bunch of people got hit by FEMA changing maps it would be common knowledge very quickly. People would be getting together to see if FEMA was correct or not. More people complaining the more chance that the elected officials will pay attention and do something.

Later,
Dan

 

[beppington]

See the attached FEMA Map Amendment determination document for a home.

In this document it's shown that the area's "1% Annual Chance Flood Elevation" is 63.6'. And, the box to the right of that shows that the "Lowest Adjacent Grade Elevation" (lowest dirt elevation next to the home) is 63.8'.

Since the dirt next to the home is 0.2' higher than the flood plain, FEMA removed the Special Flood Hazard Area designation from this home, "therefore, the Federal mandatory flood insurance requirement does not apply." (I have other determinations where the SFHA designation was not removed, since the dirt around the home is lower than 63.6')

Note also: "However, the lender has the option to continue the flood insurance requirement to protect its financial risk on the loan." which seems like BS to me.

I don't know what was involved in filing to get this determination.

View attachment 08-04-3166A-120001.pdf

- - - - -

Also, I wonder:

Since FEMA is really getting precise on terrain elevations, if the dirt directly around your house is below their established flood plain elevation, but your actual concrete slab surface is above it, does that have any bearing?

I think it should ... no?

If water is surrounding your home's concrete slab, but has not crested over the surface, I don't think you'd have water damage ... or would you?

 

[Beltzington]

Very similar situation I experienced twice with a suburban home I owned for 20+ years. FEMA adjusts flood plains periodically and based on filed property elevations you are either in a flood plain or not. Here is my advice:
Borrow or buy a GPS unit with elevation display and determine the lowest point on your property and record MSL elevation. Check against flood plain map and see if you are above the flood elevation. If it is close pay a surveyor to file a change in elevation. I had to have it done twice (FEMA last my original filing and I could not find the paperwork) and it never cost more than $500 and saved me several thousand in flood insurance over the years.
If you are in the flood plain buy the insurance, pay cash and play the odds or move. Good luck to you, I know it can be very frustrating.

The actual FEMA Form is a LETTER OF MAP AMENDMENT LOMA. Attached is the actual document. You can see the survey put our property just over one foot above the flood plain which was enough to drop the flood Insurance requirement.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

After this year there may be more map adjusting.

If the Feds are too agressive they are OK but if it floods where there was not flood plain warning then elected officials make sure heads roll to cover their back side.:thumbsup:

 

[beppington]

Very similar situation I experienced twice with a suburban home I owned for 20+ years. FEMA adjusts flood plains periodically and based on filed property elevations you are either in a flood plain or not. Here is my advice:
Borrow or buy a GPS unit with elevation display and determine the lowest point on your property and record MSL elevation.

The elevation readings on the GPS units I've seen are very inaccurate. I can go to the same exact spot different times within the same hour & get many different readings, with a variation of about +15 feet. And that's here in FL: No mountains.

That said, if OP can convince the right person to accept a GPS' elevation reading, what the heck, check it 3, 5 or 30 times, & then report to that person whichever elevation that best makes your case :thumbsup: :laughing:

 

[2manyrocks]

There appear to be lots of beach front properties covered by flood insurance even though they are sooner or later going to get washed away. Are flood insurance rates actually set according to risk of loss or are the folks inland subsidizing the beach front/river front owners?