My property being confiscated by the feds

[Alan L.]

Alan, when you think about the change in the maps remember there are two basic possibilities. You refer to one which is a change in conditions (downstream), but a change in the knowledge of conditions will also support a change in the maps.

You might ask the engineering firm to specify the basis for moving the flood plane boundary. Some engineers are so conservative they could not function in a real job that requires practical solutions. But don't insult them or they will lock in their opinion as a matter of ego.

The more informed and professional you are about addressing your predicament, the better chance of getting some relief. Also, if someone has changed the downstream watershed that is causing the change in your flood risk, you may have a case against that person.

There is a Corp of Engineers reservoir downstream only about 4 miles, there since 1986. The previous maps were done since then, and nothing has happened since then. The engineering firm won't get specific other than they "ran the numbers" and this is what they came up with. And that I could pay them to evaluate my particular property which has previously been safe according to FEMA. In other words , they flooded a bunch of us, and for a fee they will come in and rescue us...maybe.

 

[beppington]

This exact topic has been on my mind for exactly 1 year. 1 year ago I bought my vacant property to build a new house. 59 of the 60 acres are below FEMA's 64' flood plain elevation level. I knew this going in; I plan to build on the 1 acre that's above 64'.

This is certainly a really unfortunate situation for you, but 2 things I think have happened:

1) New Orleans/ Katrina & now all the MO/ MS/ LA flooding. People get flooded & the govt "must" take care of them. So, the obvious reaction after the disaster calms somewhat is to try to control/ limit the impact another similar disaster might have on our govt. One way is to accurately determine the risk level & spread the risk.

2) The previous maps were not as accurate as what can be done now, so the govt pays for newer, (supposedly) more accurate maps. BTW I don't believe they need to step foot on your property to create very accurate maps.

If you look at the FEMA flood map for my 60 acres, it's very obvious that the SFHA (Special Flood Hazard Areas) areas were drawn at a very low resolution, i.e. some of their lines are dead straight for over 1,000', even though the terrain elevation contour lines underneath are varying many feet above & below the 64' threshhold.

The maps being re-made will probably happen again when technology comes along to create another higher level of accuracy.

All that said, I would suggest shopping around for flood insurance. Probably take whichever the flat-out cheapest is, with the absolute highest deductible you can get, since I'm sure you feel you'll probably never actually need it anyway.

(No way would I spend the $12K - 23K, since they'll probably just confirm their new determination anyway; However, you could consider getting quotes from other surveyors to do the same thing. Maybe somebody else will be cheaper & provide what you need. But, again, they also may just confirm what the govt's surveyor has determined)

Good luck.

 

[hosspuller]

If part of the problem is lack of topo mapping, try using a handheld GPS to see what are the elevations of your property. Some of the GPS's have topo maps built-in and/or get calculated altitude data from the satellites. The GPS won't change any official decisions, but will give YOU info to fight or accept the new flood map. :thumbsup:

 

[Alan L.]

This exact topic has been on my mind for exactly 1 year. 1 year ago I bought my vacant property to build a new house. 59 of the 60 acres are below FEMA's 64' flood plain elevation level. I knew this going in; I plan to build on the 1 acre that's above 64'.

This is certainly a really unfortunate situation for you, but 2 things I think have happened:

1) New Orleans/ Katrina & now all the MO/ MS/ LA flooding. People get flooded & the govt "must" take care of them. So, the obvious reaction after the disaster calms somewhat is to try to control/ limit the impact another similar disaster might have on our govt. One way is to accurately determine the risk level & spread the risk.

2) The previous maps were not as accurate as what can be done now, so the govt pays for newer, (supposedly) more accurate maps. BTW I don't believe they need to step foot on your property to create very accurate maps.

If you look at the FEMA flood map for my 60 acres, it's very obvious that the SFHA (Special Flood Hazard Areas) areas were drawn at a very low resolution, i.e. some of their lines are dead straight for over 1,000', even though the terrain elevation contour lines underneath are varying many feet above & below the 64' threshhold.

The maps being re-made will probably happen again when technology comes along to create another higher level of accuracy.

All that said, I would suggest shopping around for flood insurance. Probably take whichever the flat-out cheapest is, with the absolute highest deductible you can get, since I'm sure you feel you'll probably never actually need it anyway.

(No way would I spend the $12K - 23K, since they'll probably just confirm their new determination anyway; However, you could consider getting quotes from other surveyors to do the same thing. Maybe somebody else will be cheaper & provide what you need. But, again, they also may just confirm what the govt's surveyor has determined)

Good luck.

Regardless of how "accurate" the maps were before compared to what they can do nowm if you used the map they provided and positioned your house accordingly, then you should not have to pay $4000 for flood insurance instead of $355. Had they not screwed up the first time, assuming they did, I would not have even purchased the property, much less built on it. I am pretty sure the flood insurance rates are set by FEMA.

 

[Alan L.]

If part of the problem is lack of topo mapping, try using a handheld GPS to see what are the elevations of your property. Some of the GPS's have topo maps built-in and/or get calculated altitude data from the satellites. The GPS won't change any official decisions, but will give YOU info to fight or accept the new flood map. :thumbsup:

Its been made pretty clear by the lender that whatever FEMA says goes. There is a procedure for FEMA to change their determination and it requires that the landowner provide an engineering study (at a cost of $12-23K). No exceptions, period. Without that my property will have this black mark on it forever. Can't sell, and can't afford the flood insurance.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

This exact topic has been on my mind for exactly 1 year. 1 year ago I bought my vacant property to build a new house. 59 of the 60 acres are below FEMA's 64' flood plain elevation level. I knew this going in; I plan to build on the 1 acre that's above 64'.

This is certainly a really unfortunate situation for you, but 2 things I think have happened:

1) New Orleans/ Katrina & now all the MO/ MS/ LA flooding. People get flooded & the govt "must" take care of them. So, the obvious reaction after the disaster calms somewhat is to try to control/ limit the impact another similar disaster might have on our govt. One way is to accurately determine the risk level & spread the risk.

2) The previous maps were not as accurate as what can be done now, so the govt pays for newer, (supposedly) more accurate maps. BTW I don't believe they need to step foot on your property to create very accurate maps.

If you look at the FEMA flood map for my 60 acres, it's very obvious that the SFHA (Special Flood Hazard Areas) areas were drawn at a very low resolution, i.e. some of their lines are dead straight for over 1,000', even though the terrain elevation contour lines underneath are varying many feet above & below the 64' threshhold.

The maps being re-made will probably happen again when technology comes along to create another higher level of accuracy.

All that said, I would suggest shopping around for flood insurance. Probably take whichever the flat-out cheapest is, with the absolute highest deductible you can get, since I'm sure you feel you'll probably never actually need it anyway.

(No way would I spend the $12K - 23K, since they'll probably just confirm their new determination anyway; However, you could consider getting quotes from other surveyors to do the same thing. Maybe somebody else will be cheaper & provide what you need. But, again, they also may just confirm what the govt's surveyor has determined)

Good luck.

Solid reasons behind correcting flood maps.

 

[acme97]

Years ago I was a cartographer for the Air Force, back when we made maps. I worked with the old Defense Mapping Agency. The way we determined elevation for mapping contours was through the use of Digital Terrain Elevation Data. At that time, most of the world had been imaged (to different qualities), but the US had been completely imaged for DTED. This was in the early 80s. For the US, the USGS was responsible to created maps for US. I'm sure the same method is being used for all FEMA flood maps. What this does mean is that very accurate maps can be created for contour without ever sitting foot on the actual lands. Of course, the maps are also being computer generated now and not so much by hand. I know this doesn't help, but hopefully might shed some light on map making.

 

[tcartwri]

Years ago I was a cartographer for the Air Force, back when we made maps. I worked with the old Defense Mapping Agency. The way we determined elevation for mapping contours was through the use of Digital Terrain Elevation Data. At that time, most of the world had been imaged (to different qualities), but the US had been completely imaged for DTED. This was in the early 80s. For the US, the USGS was responsible to created maps for US. I'm sure the same method is being used for all FEMA flood maps. What this does mean is that very accurate maps can be created for contour without ever sitting foot on the actual lands. Of course, the maps are also being computer generated now and not so much by hand. I know this doesn't help, but hopefully might shed some light on map making.

This is correct. Elevations are mapped using satellite or airborne survey. The airborne surveys use radar and laser profiling which is incredibly accurate, and will even penetrate through the overburden. ie trees and brush. As said, these maps have been available for some time now, so something upstream from you has changed and enlarged the flood plain.

 

[keegs]

Years ago I was a cartographer for the Air Force, back when we made maps. I worked with the old Defense Mapping Agency. The way we determined elevation for mapping contours was through the use of Digital Terrain Elevation Data. At that time, most of the world had been imaged (to different qualities), but the US had been completely imaged for DTED. This was in the early 80s. For the US, the USGS was responsible to created maps for US. I'm sure the same method is being used for all FEMA flood maps. What this does mean is that very accurate maps can be created for contour without ever sitting foot on the actual lands. Of course, the maps are also being computer generated now and not so much by hand. I know this doesn't help, but hopefully might shed some light on map making.

I can't say what FEMA is using but I think these elevation contour data "DTED" are what the cell phone companies use nowadays to locate cell towers (for optimum RF propogation)? My understanding is that they're very accurate.

I'm surprised that there's not some kind of appeals process already in place for someone in this situation to use.

 

[MossRoad]

The quality of the response you get will be a direct reflection of the quality of the representatives that you hired...

I really dislike that argument as it is used by many folks that get in without my approval. I didn't want that person in the position of power, but they got in anyway. So please don't tell me that I hired the person when I did not. Many times a person gets hired without a majority approval.

So, yes the original poster should start with the people that are in position to help him through the process and see how that goes first. But don't try to tell him he caused the situation by hiring someone.