My "new" tractor

whitetiger · Nov 1, 2006

wolc123 said:
The best thing you could do to make that tractor safer is to install a kit for a wide front end. The tricicle configuration was handy for cultivating but not nearly as stable as the wide front version. Many roll over accidents have occured with the trikes which is why they stopped making them 40 or so years ago. Great care must be taken when crossing ditches and driving on hillsides. I am not sure what the kit would cost you but maybe others on this site could give you an idea. Other than that, the H is a fine machine and you got a good deal.

A narror front end is no more unstable than a wide front end. The wide front axle pivots in the center. The narrow front was dicontinued primarily so larger size front tires could be used for a better ride. Also mud or snow would build up between the tires and pedestal locking up your front tires with a narrow front. A wide front set to the same track a the rear tires will till row crop every bit as well as a narrow front except for head land turns using 3 point equipment.

Doc_Bob · Nov 2, 2006

whitetiger said:
A narror front end is no more unstable than a wide front end. .

Hmmm, my gut tells me otherwise. I think I will go ride my tricycle for a while and think about narrow versus wide front ends.

Bob

Nat · Nov 2, 2006

Bob, I'd have to agree with Whitetiger on this on. A wide front has the same rear width and a pivot on the front where as a tricycle front is spread on 2 tires that are set about 1 foot apart so they are more stable than the same configuration tractor with a wide front on a pivot. I have seen studies in the past where the tipping point of a tricycle front was lower than the same tractor with a wide front. Some of the aftermarket wide fronts were extended out more and they were more stable.
I have a C farmall, with the tricycle front and a B- Allis Chalmers with a wide front and the C is much more stable than the B. I know this is apples to oranges, but if you spend time on trikes you would feel the same. Later, Nat

JimParker · Nov 2, 2006

I assume we're talking about early "wide front" designs that use a pivoting axle for steering. In this case, the only difference would be the width of the axle to which the wheels were attatched.

You would have to turn the axle 60 degrees or more off-center for the wide front to become effectively as narrow (sideways rollover axis) as the narrow front would be 100% of the time. Try it yourself with two different length pencils, and you'll see what I mean.

wide narrow
____ vs __

/
/ vs /
/

It is true that as you turn the axle farther to make sharper turns, you lose some of the stability created by the wider axle. But that does not change the fact that the wider front axle design will always be more statically stable than the narrow axle design.

As you begin to explore the "dynamic rollover" characteristics, the wide-front remain considerably more inherently stable. That's why all the manufacturers switched to wide-front designs, and then to stationary axles with pivoting wheels when product liability lawsuits came into vogue.

That's one of the reasons I find New Holland's "SuperSteer" such an interesting anomality... I wonder how they ever got that past their internal legal review teams!

roxynoodle · Nov 2, 2006

I did some research on the tractor before I bought it. The wide front ends, statistically, were only slightly more stable than the trike fronts. The biggest problem with stability on the Farmall H is that it has 24" of clearance, and therefore a very high center of gravity. Wide front or not, this tractor is easy to tip. I do have the back wheels at 84" apart. One of my neighbors is trying to get me to take them in, but as high as this tractor is, I want them left where they're at. If slopes are a concern and you want a vintage tractor, I would look at the Ford 8Ns and 9Ns. Low center of gravity combined with wide stance.

My Yanmar has the front wheels set out the same as the back ones. But, it also is a tall tractor for it's width (to till in water for the rice paddies) and it is tippy also. Center of gravity seems to be more a factor than the setting of the front wheels.

wolc123 · Nov 3, 2006

You are on the right track with the wide setting of the rears, that will help a lot, but if one of those rears breaks into a big gopher home, you will not have much to keep the tractor from rolling. The pivot on a typical wide front is limited to about 15 degrees and will still prevent roll in many cases. Also, the fronts, being in the same track as the rears, will often break open the gopher homes before the rears get there. I own a trike and one thing for sure, it is not a tractor for inexperienced operators. Trikes were more effective than wide fronts for cultivating for three reasons: better visibility, tighter turning radius, and better crop clearance. Also, lacking hydraulic power they were quite a bit easier to steer. Even with these advantages, safety concerns halted thier manufacture 40 years ago (it had little to do with snow and ice getting stuck between the front wheels, who cultivates in the winter?). Heck, even the 3 wheeled ATV suffered the same fate 20 years ago. Good thing we have a bunch of lawyers looking out for us.

roxynoodle · Nov 4, 2006

Yeah, I can see mud getting stuck in the tricycle front end. For my use though, it could be snow and ice, as the fields are empty all winter and it is a good time to spread as long as it isn't too much snow or too wet.

I did get a choke rod on it today and that is so nice not to have to jump on and off the tractor to adjust the choke. Plus I shouldn't be chancing running myself over when I start it as I'll be in the seat. I did also put on a new steering wheel. The old one isn't even round anymore and I assume at one point it was round

. The steering wheel was a lot harder than the choke rod. Had to use a mini sledge to get the old one off and the new on (with a block of wood to keep myself from marring the new metal).

whitetiger · Nov 5, 2006

wolc123 said:
You are on the right track with the wide setting of the rears, that will help a lot, but if one of those rears breaks into a big gopher home, you will not have much to keep the tractor from rolling. The pivot on a typical wide front is limited to about 15 degrees and will still prevent roll in many cases. Also, the fronts, being in the same track as the rears, will often break open the gopher homes before the rears get there. I own a trike and one thing for sure, it is not a tractor for inexperienced operators. Trikes were more effective than wide fronts for cultivating for three reasons: better visibility, tighter turning radius, and better crop clearance. Also, lacking hydraulic power they were quite a bit easier to steer. Even with these advantages, safety concerns halted thier manufacture 40 years ago (it had little to do with snow and ice getting stuck between the front wheels, who cultivates in the winter?). Heck, even the 3 wheeled ATV suffered the same fate 20 years ago. Good thing we have a bunch of lawyers looking out for us.

Have you ever visited a farm??????????? The tractor was used for about every thing except going to town on saturday evening. They are used year round in all kinds of weather. Mud snow and ice packing between the front tires had a lot to do with the end of narrow front ends.
I also own two tractors with narrow front ends, 22 MH and a 44 MH. We farmed 320 acres of rolling fields with new terraces for many years with the 44.
Take a hi clearance wide front axle tractor of the same era and jack one front tire up until the axle contacts the frame. Measure how high it raised. Now jack one rear wheel up to the same hight and see how stable the tractor is now ( if it is not already laying on it's side.