My letter to Kioti, loader rerepair, long

Highbeam · Jun 11, 2006

MOtractorman's loader repair isn't that much different or better than my hack job. The welder was a little better since he looks to have used a MIG and paid closer attention to fitment as not to leave a lip sticking out from below. The drainhole is now plugged so you have a water/oil trap in there. Even the large cutouts for the hoses look to be torched out. Overspray!

Sorry to be critical of your repair, I have spent so much time pointing out the errors in mine that I can find them pretty quickly in your similar repair.

I would be sure that Kioti sees the repair with pictures and that you point out the flaws in the repair that are not consistent with professional bodywork on your nice and new tractor.

Highbeam · Jun 11, 2006

From Kioti to dealers:

"We have recieved reports of cosmetic cracks developing on the torque tube (cross member between the arms of the boom) of some KL120 & KL130 loaders. While we have had no reports of failures resulting from these cracks, our engineers are working to design a suitable solution for this issue. One the information is ready to be released, KIOTI will notify you (the dealers) with further information regarding this issue." (Quote stolen from another thread but the same as I was verbally quoted from my dealer)

So they now tell dealers that this is a COSMETIC issue on SOME loaders. While it's pretty obvious they are trying to minimize this issue, at least they are admitting it. This is a giant step that we all should feel good about.

So now they are testing prototype repairs for a kit and will have a new and improved loader with an integrated fix for the new buyers. ETA bout 3 months to the showroom.

Warranty issues yet to be determined for the owners of old loaders. This is pretty big because if it is a campaign where you send your loader to Iowa for a factory repair it could be expensive with lots of downtime. Is the warranty extended? What if you're just out of warranty.

I picked up my machine on Friday and put it to work. I have my old welded loader on which as I always stated is very functional, just repulsively ugly and farm repairish. I still grease the pins, I can't help it.

Kioti determined, with a little help from me and my dealer, that the best solution in my case is a replacement loader with the integrated fix. I will be waiting the three months for the new loaders to come in. I'm not willing to count my chicks before they hatch but it looks like I will be taken care of here.

The straw that broke the camel's back was the replacement loader frame being delivered with high damage all over the thing. I saw it still strapped to the shipping pallet and it was abused. It looks like the freight guys stacked other freight on it.

If I was a guy with a cracked loader I would go to your dealer pronto since the bulletin is so fresh. I would NOT subject my loader to any interim repair until Kioti comes out with the real fix kit.

Kioti reps were always very polite and responsive to my letters. They tried to have my dealer fix the crack (failure), tried to rerepair it (unacceptable), tried to replace the loader frame with another crack prone one (damaged in shipping, plus they realized it was a bad move), and now are to replace my loader with an updated one which is a great move. They tried several ways to deal with this working from cheap fixes first and then up towards the most expensive one. All of these fixes burned up months of my time without a machine. Thank goodness that it is easy for me to transport my tractor to and from the dealer.

If I was a dealer with one of the old loaders on my lot, I would be having a hard time selling these loaders without showing them the bulletin. You dealers are in a tough spot because it is documented now.

Lets hope for a very pleasant repair kit and for the new loaders to be tough as nails so that Kioti can thrive.

rico304 · Jun 11, 2006

Highbeam,
while this is obviously not a "cosmetic" crack, I am happy that Kioti is taking ownership of the problem. I believe they will do the right thing.
I do believe that your postings here were a big part of this fix. I'm also glad everyone jumped in instead of just Kioti owners. As I stated earlier, I think they needed to see how this could effect them in the future.

JerryG · Jun 11, 2006

Joe,
Sorry to hear that it is going to be three months before all of this is behind you. But I am glad to hear that they are going to do it right and give you the new updated frame. When they get that done, I hope that you have many uneventfully hours before anything else pops up.

MotorSeven · Jun 11, 2006

"Cosmetic" {groan} you have got to be kidding. Ok, then gee, lets see...keep working the thing hard watch the crack crawl up over and around the cross brace. I would hate to be near the thing when it meets itself.... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
and the saga continues.........................
RD

IslandTractor · Jun 12, 2006

"Cosmetic" 

Yeah, it was pretty dumb of Kioti to use that term. What were they thinking? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Some PR dude trying to gloss over a problem most likely. However, the real point of their message was that they are working on a structural reinforcement (funny solution to a cosmetic problem eh?). So I think we should assume there is a bit of a disconnect between their amateurish communications and their hopefully professional engineering efforts to solve this loader problem. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

New_Jersey01 · Jun 14, 2006

This is the response to my letter sent to Kioti. I just asked if they are going to fix/repair all loaders.

Kioti responed with this statement.
I will say that the few cases that have been reported are for the most part isolated and are not as wide spread as some would like to believe.

rico304 · Jun 15, 2006

I don't think many Kioti owners have even thought to look at their loaders. Thanks to HB and others on this site, I think many owners of all brands have checked their tractor a little closer than normal. I don't know the numbers, but how many have found cracks due to highbeams post?? I think it was a pretty decent number. Imagine how many are out there that don't belong to this site. There is obviously something wrong with material or manufacturing. They are owning up to it, we just have to wait and see to what level.

Bob_Skurka · Jun 15, 2006

NewJersey01 wrote 
I will say that the few cases that have been reported are for the most part isolated and are not as wide spread as some would like to believe. 

Rico wrote I don't think many Kioti owners have even thought to look at their loaders. . . how many have found cracks due to highbeams post?? I think it was a pretty decent number. Imagine how many are out there that don't belong to this site. There is obviously something wrong . . . 

Rico, if you look at a thread started by Bearhawk, you will see that there are about a dozen people who found cracks. If you take an informal count of the active members here on TBN who own the 120 and 130 loaders you will see there about 40 to 50 folks.

A quick bit of math shows that 12 broken loaders out of a pool of 50 loaders has potential for 25% of the loaders to be cracked.

Assume that in the world OUTSIDE of TBN that things are similar and ou can guestimate that perhaps 25% of the total loaders either have cracks, or have the probability of future cracks.

Assumptions are not always good, but those are the figures that I see right now.

I will also say that Highbeam has done a great service to all tractor owners. I tend to think that many of us have looked far more closely at our tractors because of this thread.

gmsssi · Jun 15, 2006

( I will say that the few cases that have been reported are for the most part isolated and are not as wide spread as some would like to believe. )

I quite don't understand this statement? What bring's you to this conclusion? I would think that the problem is a high percentage just by the information members are supplying on TBN. The problem has been experienced by owners all over, not in one specific area.

Might be based on a bad "batch or lot" (based on time or materials) but this is IMO qualifies as larger than a "isolated" problem! How many have to break for the problem to be removed from the isolated to the recall category?

New_Jersey01 · Jun 15, 2006

Not my conclusion. That was the response from my letter to Kioti.

gmsssi · Jun 15, 2006

( I will say that the few cases that have been reported are for the most part isolated and are not as wide spread as some would like to believe. )

So your saying the quote above came from KIOTI ????

New_Jersey01 · Jun 15, 2006

Yes it came from Kioti

Highbeam · Jun 15, 2006

They can call it cosmetic and they can even call it isolated, but they had better take care of the problem for future buyers and take care of the customers that have already experienced this failure. If you believe the other statements by Kioti, they have a solution for current and future crackage.

Just know that since Kioti considers this an isolated problem that they won't be calling you up to see if your loader is cracked, you will need to be proactive and report your cracks to get on the list.

It sure would be nice to see a photo or some other evidence of the prototype fix and revised loaders. Just so we know that they are doing something.

gmsssi · Jun 15, 2006

Well it is stated like an individual made it and not at all like I would expect a company or it's spokesman to make. This continues my disturbance of the way Kioti has handled this. I was hoping for it to be corrected but they continue to blunder...

1. Loader problem
2. Loader problem denial
3. Shoddy repair and/or guidance to the repair
4. Acceptance with no statement
5. Statement as a "cosmetic" issue needing "structural" consideration
6. Now "isolated" incidence and unprofessional correspondence

Wake Up!

It would behoove them to just start over and come clean and quit putting on the charade. I encourage them to do so because frankly they have been caught in one (charade).

Any guesses to the next revelation? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

BTW..... I'm now on the third week waiting on a warranty seat!

New_Jersey01 · Jun 15, 2006

Really makes you think why would you purchase another Kioti in the future. I will promise you this if I don't get the fix loader/cracked or not. I will never purchase anything from them again.

Batche33 · Jun 15, 2006

You guys really need to simmer down.
If you could see what I can see from this side you certainly would.

( Might be based on a bad "batch or lot )
You brought up a good point here.

Since you all want to help make Kioti better why don't every one with KL120 and KL130 loaders, with and without cracks, that are here on TBN post your loader serial numbers.

As far as hours, I believe it's irrelevant.
I believe it's how they are being used not how long they've been used.
Whether or not these loaders should or should not withstand how they are being used is also irrelevant (with what I am trying to gather)

Do post your loader's serial number, whether or not your loader has cracks and honestly how you use it.

I will gather the info together and talk to Kioti.

Keep it simple and straight to the point and believe me you'll get your answers alot faster.

Becky

JerryG · Jun 15, 2006

I have said very little about this problem and probably shouldn’t say anything, but I am going to.

You guys really need to simmer down.
Why should they? They have been told that it is cosmetic and they have also been told that it is isolated. Everyone knows that is a bunch of hogwash.

Since you are a dealer I can understand why you want to shut this up. But as long as a company any company handles a problem like this they are going to have upset owners. I know that I completely understand HB and the other owners that are upset. They have a right to be and they shouldn’t have anyone talking to them like they shouldn’t be or talking to them like they should just shut up. And yes if my loader had this problem, I would be making a real stink about it too.

gmsssi · Jun 15, 2006

( Really makes you think why would you purchase another Kioti in the future. I will promise you this if I don't get the fix loader/cracked or not. I will never purchase anything from them again. )

Hey I don't need to simmer down, I'm not affected by the problem and my tractor has been great! At this point in time, I would buy another Kioti but not anything requiring the mentioned loaders! I believe that mistakes made can be corrected, my issue now is the route and manner Kioti has taken on the issue. This could end up being the reason I don't buy another one!!!

Highbeam · Jun 15, 2006

"You guys really need to simmer down.
If you could see what I can see from this side you certainly would."

I am much more simmered now that Kioti is supposed to be doing something about the problem. I found out early on that staying simmered doesn't get anything accomplished. A lot of my being simmered is based on a trust with Kioti, we all had to trust this company when we bought into an off brand tractor but this additional level of trust is a stretch.

I would love to see what you can see from that side. Maybe you can at least describe it? It is becoming obvious that the dealers are receiving some information and reassurance that the customers are not. Why does Kioti do this? Aren't we on the same team?