My Industrial Cabin Build

[WoodChuckDad]

There are geothermal water to water units that can do your floor heat.

The question, is always, at what cost. Previously I was looking at a heat pump water heater. They have huge foot print and I don’t have the space. I bought an on demand boiler that mounts on the wall. The reality is that the cost of propane will fit my budget once I figure out how to achieve the initial outlay for infrastructure.

 

[ovrszd]

I run 3 propane tankless heaters. They all could be ran on electric. I don't have a basis to say which would be cheaper to operate.

I run an air to air propane fired HVAC system in the house. Propane fired floor heat does the heavy work. In early Fall and late Winter I run on the air to air.

I actually think I could heat my house cheaper using the air to air propane fired HVAC. But I wouldn't be able to have warm floors. We really like our floor heat.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Electricity usage for on demand water heaters is high. I looked into it and it would require about a 100-150 amp breaker. Increased wire size etc. nope. I will figure it out. It is just going to take some time.

 

[s219]

Diesel is $5+/gallon right now. And diesel storage for a generator seems like it would be a pain.

Buy the offroad diesel and you'll save about 40 cents a gallon. A 55 gal tank of diesel can run that size generator for a week or so (or double that if you want to be selective with time and circuits). You can store more very easily. Since I use diesel for my tractor and UTV, I always keep a couple hundred gallons around in transfer tanks (and re-stock when prices are low, certainly NOT now).

Although I didn't do it, you can integrate a couple hundred gallons of diesel storage into a rectangular tank that goes under the generator mount. So the whole setup is very compact. The other benefit is that it's an 1800 RPM water-cooled generator, which has a much longer duty cycle and service life than the 3600 RPM air-cooled propane/NG Generacs. Those Generacs are popular, but you can burn through their lifecycle in just a couple hurricanes.

I was oblivious to a lot of the benefits of diesel generators until we got soured on some of the issues putting in propane and then diesel turned out to be a great option. After seeing all the hassles my neighbors have dealt with for propane over the years, I feel lucky we didn't get caught in that trap. To me propane really only make sense if it's indispensable for 1-2 things and convenient for some others.

Anyway, not trying to be a salesman here, but you mentioned you needed propane for a generator and based on my experience that should not be a reason to hold out for propane. Like I said, once we realized we didn't need propane for that, it freed up a lot of other constraints and issues revolving around propane.

 

[dirttoys]

Buy the offroad diesel and you'll save about 40 cents a gallon. A 55 gal tank of diesel can run that size generator for a week or so (or double that if you want to be selective with time and circuits). You can store more very easily. Since I use diesel for my tractor and UTV, I always keep a couple hundred gallons around in transfer tanks (and re-stock when prices are low, certainly NOT now).

Although I didn't do it, you can integrate a couple hundred gallons of diesel storage into a rectangular tank that goes under the generator mount. So the whole setup is very compact. The other benefit is that it's an 1800 RPM water-cooled generator, which has a much longer duty cycle and service life than the 3600 RPM air-cooled propane/NG Generacs. Those Generacs are popular, but you can burn through their lifecycle in just a couple hurricanes.

I was oblivious to a lot of the benefits of diesel generators until we got soured on some of the issues putting in propane and then diesel turned out to be a great option. After seeing all the hassles my neighbors have dealt with for propane over the years, I feel lucky we didn't get caught in that trap. To me propane really only make sense if it's indispensable for a 1-2 things and convenient for some others.

Anyway, not trying to be a salesman here, but you mentioned you needed propane for a generator and based on my experience that should not be a reason to hold out for propane. Like I said, once we realized we didn't need propane for that, it freed up a lot of other constraints and issues revolving around propane.

I went all electric, in the winter I sometimes wish I had put in propane, but over all probably a wash, and I don't have to look at the tank.

Generator is absolutely not a reason to go propane. If the equipment in the pic's and vid's belongs to the OP, he will be storing diesel anyway. All things equal, I would much rather have a engine driven welder or light tower for my genny, that way it gets used, and serves a purpose.

If in fact I didn't store diesel, then probably propane gets more attractive, be aware of how much propane a 20kw will burn in a few days though.

Best,

ed

 

[EddieWalker]

When I built my house, I went all electric so I could get it done faster and cheaper. Since then, I installed a wood stove for heat because electric heat was freakishly expensive!!! Now I have a natural gas line to close to my house, and I plan on running it into my house some time this year. Then I will convert everything that I can to natural gas. Stove, water heater, HVAC and even by BBQ and hopefully a natural gas generator some time in the future. It's a huge PIA, but for the long haul, it will be worthwhile.

In this case, I would just keep looking for the tank that you need and either pay whatever it takes to get it, or deal with the drive to get it. When it's all said and done, it will be best to have what you really want.

 

[Popgadget]

If in fact I didn't store diesel, then probably propane gets more attractive, be aware of how much propane a 20kw will burn in a few days though.

In round numbers Diesel is 140k btu per gallon compared to 91k for propane. So the best that you could hope for would be to burn 35 percent more propane for the same amount of work produced. Propane might be a more reliable remote start when cold though.

 

[deezler]

Its a shame you dont feel you have room for a heat-pump electric water heater. My 50-gal is only like, 20" in diameter? Its the same size as a conventional water heater, just a little taller with the compressor on top. Super efficient, in my experience.

Yeah, you have PEX in the floor, but you don't strictly need it. If you can commit to feeding the wood stove, and supplement with basic electric heating in the far corners of the house (or your mini split units), you'll be fine.

This how my house runs, been great since we built in 2015. Probably made the final fire of the season this morning during what was hopefully our final frost.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Its a shame you dont feel you have room for a heat-pump electric water heater. My 50-gal is only like, 20" in diameter? Its the same size as a conventional water heater, just a little taller with the compressor on top. Super efficient, in my experience.

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Will the mini splits be heat also? Can they cover code requirement for heat, and hook up floor heat later if and when tanks are more readily available?

My heat pump water heater was good when it worked, but that wasn’t too long. Got fixed once on warranty, but compressor went up again so I used it as a conventional WH until it started leaking around the heat coils. Now it lays beside my barn.

 

[mike0000]

My heat pump water heater was good when it worked, but that wasn’t too long. Got fixed once on warranty, but compressor went up again so I used it as a conventional WH until it started leaking around the heat coils. Now it lays beside my barn.

A friend of mine built a house about 8 years or so ago, went with a heat pump water heater (they were pretty new then) it was nothing but trouble for him Too. He went back to regular electric tank (all electric home).
I went with a buried propane tank, (we bought/own it) dual fuel furnace (heat pump/high efficiency propane furnace) we‘re happy with it, our wood burning insert, and propane water heater. Tried a on demand propane water heater. It Was great when it worked, wife was not happy every time it didn’t. Dirty sensors and burner, control panel went out (replaced under warranty), problem after problem, went back to a tank unit.
We all have our struggles.

Mike