My "Free" 4' rotary needs work

[fishpick]

I picked up a "free" 4' rotary - painted yellow (maybe a King Kutter) - looks to be in fairly good shape... however, tonight when I hitched her up the sliding PTO shaft froze up and I was unable to lower the implement to the ground - you could see the PTO shaft yanking on the tractor PTO... (released the catch pin on the PTO connector on the tractor and lowered the implement, pulling the shaft off the PTO)

So - I'll be getting a new shaft for the unit.

Since I have to make a run the the tractor supply joint - I decided I might as well remove the blades and get new ones as these are moderately chewed... I had the 1 1/2" socket - but can not get the nuts to budge - tonight they are sitting with lots of WD-40 on them... anyone have any "sure fire" ways to get a pair of highly neglected nuts off a rotary that sat outside... I sure would like to get new blades added to the shaft replacement... then it would be like new!

 

[bx23barry]

lots of bp blaster and a BIG impact gun

 

[Neophyte]

Do you have any pictures that you can post?

Are you using any type of quick hitch on your 3PH?

If you were able to slide the PTO shaft out to initially hook it up to the tractor, then you should be able to slide it back in. It sounds like the PTO shaft may be too short and it might have bound. When connected to the tractor, did you have at least 6" of shaft overlap? If not, you will need to get a longer shaft and cut it too fit your machine.

Have you tried to pull the driveline apart? If it's really stubborn, chain one side to something solid and chain the other side to your tractor and pull it apart. After you have it pulled apart, take off the safety shrouds and examine the shafts. Is it bent, twisted, burred or rusted? If only rusted, lightly sand the rust off, grease it up and give it another try. Make sure you have at least 6" of overlap at the longest distance and you are not bottoming out at the shortest distance. This may save you $125 to $150.

In terms of the blade bolts & nuts, I just went through your same situation. Have you tried an impact gun? If you are using a 3/4" drive ratchet or breaker bar, put a length of conduit over it to get more leverage. I used a 6' piece of conduit and still had a difficult time. We had to use a torch to heat up the nuts to help them break free. Before you start backing the nut off, make sure you grease any exposed threads to make it easier going later on. We were finally able to get both to break free but one of the bolts was stripped in the process. Be prepared, you may need to purchase a new blade bolt kit (around $12 each). Also, many blade bolts have round shoulders and typically have a key way to prevent them from turning. If there is significant corrosion, you may find that these key ways fail and the blade bolt will turn while you are wrenching on the nut. If so, you will need to get a pipe wrench on the bolt head, which can be a pain. If you are lucky, you will have square shoulder bolts.

In terms of the blades, you may want to try to give them a new edge with a grinder and re-use them. Why use new blades to find rocks. Find the rocks with the old blades and then you can always put new blades on later.

BTW, does it have a slip clutch or shear bolt? If slip clutch, make sure you service it. If shear bolt, make sure it's a grade 2.

Let us know how it goes and post pictures.

 

[fishpick]

OK - the following link is off to the pictures of this fellow - the nut - the shaft - the whole deal. Picasa Web Albums - fishpick - 4' Rotary Cutter
There is no quick connect - standard 3PT hitch. There is a lot of shaft overlap... it was hard to slide together initially but as the picture shows (sorta) I did sand it down and apply a liberal amount of lubricant... it slid back and forth fine - even after I attached the mover to the tractor when it was raised and lowered... as soon as I engaged the PTO for a test - from that point on - the shaft has been like one solid piece.
I have been PB Blaster-ing them for a day or so now... gonna buy a bigger breaker bar and length of conduit. The fact the bolts are shimmed under them by washers makes me want to replace the setup for mental piece of mind.
Thoughts - opinions?

 

[JerryG]

Most of the time you can just pull the shafts apart when they are jammed. It might not be easy, but it would save you several bucks. It may need to be shortened for your application. If you don't have access to a large impact gun, you may have to use an 8' cheater bar. They can be a real bear to get off.

 

[fishpick]

Is it "real bad" to run a PTO shaft that does not have the safety shrouds on it - the shaft it came with is as the pictures show it...

As for shortening it - I'm assuming saws-all with metal blade will do it? I want the 6" overlap at the longest position...

 

[Neophyte]

Is it "real bad" to run a PTO shaft that does not have the safety shrouds on it - the shaft it came with is as the pictures show it...

Yes, it's bad. Don't even consider it. I'm not sure they make a shroud for the shaft that you have. Usually there are ring slots to accomodate a shroud. If this shaft can't accomodate a safety shroud, then you should definitely purchase a new shaft that has one.

As for shortening it - I'm assuming saws-all with metal blade will do it? I want the 6" overlap at the longest position...

Hack saw, saws-all, chop saw, etc. 6" is the minimum, you really want more than this. You just want to be sure the shaft does not "bottom out" at the shortest path. At the shortest path, you should have a couple of inches to spare.

Check page 7 & 8 of the following manual. It gives a good overview of how to cut your PTO shaft to fit.

Bush Hog Squealer Owner's Manual (PDF)

Lose the old shear bolt. Purchase 5 to 10 Grade 2 bolts, 1/2" x 3-1/2" with Nylock nuts. Even without a slip clutch, Howse calls for a Grade 5 bolt. DO NOT listen to them (I will post more about this later). If you find that you are snapping too many Grade 2 bolts, then invest in a slip clutch ($63 from Agri-Supply).

Just in case you have not already seen it, here is the parts breakdown for your rotary cutter. Howse makes their parts lists available, which is nice, but it's somewhat pointless since you can't seem to get any response out of them.

Howse Model 300, 350, 400 & 500 Parts Diagram

I also notice you don't have any front or rear guards. Do not operate it without guards. You could order chain guards from Howse but they are pretty expensive ($136 + S&H) and it may take a while before you get them. You could make your own chain guards or you could use Soundguy's idea, which is cutting up truck mudflaps. Keep in mind that you need to offset them a bit so the blades don't hit them.

I have posted a few pictures of my Howse 500 so you can see the chain guards as supplied by Howse. Note that I replaced the old PTO shaft that is shown in the pictures; it was too short for my tractor with the iMatch.

 

[fishpick]

So - I pretty much knew the answer to the "should I run this shaft" question... But you did answer the second half I didn't post - I couldn't see how I would ever get a shroud around this shaft, like you said - there are no slots or mechanism to hold it in place. So - I'll go spend $140 for a new shrouded shaft.
As for the guards - good point - I'll figure out a way to either make the chain version myself - or use some old tires I have around.
So - Howse is it you know it's a Howse? And would it be the 400 - for 4'? I very much appreciate the ID of the unit! (had not known what it was - so I doubly appreciate the parts list)
I was planning on replacing the shear bolt - any your recommendation confirms my exact thinking... bolts are cheap and should shear readily - tractor guts are not and should not!
So - now - here's another question (and I haven't walked these forums yet) - does Howse make a good unit? There is a fair amount of runt on the deck of this guy and some of the retaining parts underneath are pretty bad... is it worth the $200 or so in refurb to get this unit up and running - or is it worth saving that and applying it towards the purchase of something new (or newer)

 

[Neophyte]

So - Howse is it you know it's a Howse? And would it be the 400 - for 4'? I very much appreciate the ID of the unit! (had not known what it was - so I doubly appreciate the parts list)

I apologize for the brain cramp, I thought you had mentioned it was a Howse in your previous post so I was under that assumption. I must have had another thread on the brain.

You are probably right in that it's a King Kutter. King Kutter has a good online parts ordering system and they seem to be much more responsive than Howse.

One other thing to keep in mind is that some Rotary Cutter PTO shafts have a special extended safety shroud on the implement side. You typically see this on implements that don't have a safety cover. My Howse has a safety cover so I can use a regular PTO shroud. Your unit does not have a safety cover, which means you should either try to get the extended safety shroud or make a safety cover for your unit. If you make something, don't make it too permanent as you will need to remove/move it often to get to the shear bolt.

Most of the money you are sinking into this unit will be in the PTO shaft, which can be used elsewhere. Keep the old PTO shaft around in case you ever sell the rotary cutter, you can always keep the new shaft and sell it with the old one.

Other than that, grind a new edge to the existing blades and you are up and running. Give it a try, if it doesn't do what you need it to, then you can always purchase another used or new one. If you purchase new, I think you can get a rotary cutter without a PTO shaft and save some money.

Do you have any bankings to mow? If so, you can remove the small lift arm braces and replace the large lift arm braces with chains. This will allow the unit to hinge while backing up bankings. Just be careful of the PTO shaft angle when and if you ever do this. You would probably also need to shorten the PTO shaft even more as the RC gearbox will come closer to the tractor when you do this.