My first issue

[deadstick]

Well I knew it had to happen sooner or later. I finally have hit a problem with my PT425, the engine will not start.

I'm going to give Power-Trac a call tomorrow but I wanted any advice from the more mechanically inclined here.

Whenever I attempt to turn the engine on I hear a metallic clicking sound coming I think from the starter. The engine does not turn over, just a clicking sound. I have checked:

1) the oil level
2) the treadle is centered
3) I tried jump starting with another battery

Could it be the starter. I saw another post which mentioned a solenoid. Please excuse my mechanically dumb brain but I'm not sure what this is.....

Anyway, any clues or advice would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks..

 

[pajoube]

That clicking makes it sound like the starter has gone out.
PJ

 

[JerryG]

Sounds to me like a loose battery cable. Some times, they appear to be tight but they need to be tightened just a little more.

 

[MossRoad]

I agree with JerryG... remove the battery cables, clean them and the posts, reattach them, and give it a try before tearing into anything.

 

[jol1269]

im not sure of where the starter is located on the 425 as i have not got mine yet but if the starter is accesable you might try to cross the wire nuts where they attach to the starter with a good insulated screwdriver to see if that might turn it over if the cables are good connection is good and the solenoid ok it should turn it over if not ya may wnat to look into the starter of course make sure the battery is juiced up and if your neighbor has auto locking doors on his auto make sure your auto locking device is turned off ..... i removed a starter off a dodge ram before i figured that one out /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif <font color="blue"> </font>

 

[Anonymous Poster]

The B&S in my lawn tractor has done the same thing every now and then for several years. The fix is a big rubber hammer. The <font color="red">proper </font> fix is to take the starter off and clean and lube it.

Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with Kohlers, and I've never worked on one, and I don't play one on TV, but the following should apply anyway:

Many starters have a set of contacts in them which provide power to the motor windings. These contacts make when the solenoid drives the starter into engangement with the ring gear on the engine. If the contacts are dirty, out of adjustment (if adjustable), or if the solenoid throw is restricted somehow (dirt, lack of lube, out of adjustment, etc.) then you will just get the infamous click.

A weak battery will also do it, although usually that results in a ratcheting clicking sound instead of the single click.

I would try the rubber hammer--just give the starter a smart tap. If that doesn't work, or even if it does, I would pull the starter and clean and lube it.

If you take it to a shop, they will probably replace the starter. Taking it off yourself and doing the clean and lube bit is generally a whole lot less expensive.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention a couple of things. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif A burned out starter winding will also do it, as will bad electrical connections to the starter motor. I would look at those too.

SnowRidge

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red">Many starters have a set of contacts in them which provide power to the motor windings. These contacts make when the solenoid drives the starter into engangement with the ring gear on the engine. If the contacts are dirty, out of adjustment (if adjustable), or if the solenoid throw is restricted somehow (dirt, lack of lube, out of adjustment, etc.) then you will just get the infamous click.
</font>
I have the same clicking problem whenever the battery gets the slightest bit low on my 21 hp Kubota in a Jacobsen Turf Cat. Unfortunately, the solenoid is a sealed unit, so I cant get to the starter contacts at the end of the solenoid. In my youth, there were merely two contacts which were hit by a disc on the solenoid plunger. Cleaning the disc usually fixed the problem. Now, the most usual fix is to replace the solenoid.
The above assumes, of course, the kind of solenoid which pulls the starter gear and flywheel ring gear together. If it's a separate solenoid, a la Ford, and a Bendix, then the starter itself is the more likely culprit. As was noted, however, first step is to make sure every connection, at the battery, the solenoid, and the battery ground to the engine are clean and tight.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have the same clicking problem whenever the battery gets the slightest bit low on my 21 hp Kubota in a Jacobsen Turf Cat. Unfortunately, the solenoid is a sealed unit, so I cant get to the starter contacts at the end of the solenoid. )</font>

Assuming that solenoid physically drives the starter gear into the ring gear, a dirty or lube lacking starter can prevent those contacts from making. You don't necessarily have to be able to get into the solenoid to correct the problem. You may be able to correct it by cleaning and lubing the starter itself.

Also, if the starter engagement is adjustable, a too aggressive setting can prevent the contacts from making properly.

Typically the starter works at first, then gets intermittent, and finally won't work at all. This change occurs as the contacts wear from repeated operation and require a little more solenoid throw to make properly. Backing off the starter engagement adjustment a little fixes the problem.

This from a long term relationship with a 3 cyl Isuzu diesel.

SnowRidge

 

[Anonymous Poster]

If jump starting doesn't help much...check "+" cable at the starter for tightness and no corrosion AND check "-" cable where it attaches to frame (or block)... for no corrosion and tightness.

Of course, don't check starter connection with a tool unless neg cable is OFF the battery.

 

[Charlie_Iliff]

<font color="red"> Also, if the starter engagement is adjustable, a too aggressive setting can prevent the contacts from making properly.
</font>

I don't think there's any adjustment available on my Jacobsen starter, and I've had it off and cleaned and lubed the shaft which gave a temporary improvement. I certainly concur with inspection, cleaning, lubricating and adjustment of the starter gear, if available, as a diagnostic step, after cleanliness and tightness of all positive and ground connections have been verified. These days, I suspect most shops will just install a new starter, complete with solenoid, thus probably curing the problem without diagnosis.

 

[deadstick]

OK, I appreciate all the info so far. Here's the latest. I tried the old Fonzie trick of hitting it. Well wouldn't ya know the engine started. I let it run for a while and checked the battery volts which were around 13.2 and shut her off.

I immedaitely tried to start her again but the engine would not start. After a few more hits it started again, so I'm inclined to think that the starter or solenoid is not working correctly due to dirt or something...

So the next plan of action is to clean the starter and solenoid. Any clues on how to get it off the engine. It's kinda tight in there?

Thanks again for all the help...

 

[davesisk]

Deadstick:

Check the battery cables again. See if you can tell whether the "clicking" is the starter or solenoid, OR it's the battery cables arc'ing. If the battery terminal clamps on the battery cable's get corroded (ie. isn't making good contact), current will arc from the battery pole to some of the copper strands in the battery cable. Check it out...

Next, Try the solenoid. If it's still the same on the 400's, it's mounted to the side wall of the engine bay, and has a big red cable from the battery going to it, a small wire going to the ignition switch, and another big wire going to the starter (and possible a ground also, unless it grounds to the body where it is attached). It's actually just a relay...when you turn the ignition switch to "start", it sends a current to the small pole on this solenoid (really just a small electromagnet), which closes the solenoid contacts, which then sends the large current to the starter. (If you sent this large current through the ignition switch, it would cook it immediately, thus the need for a relay). Anyway, this is easy to replace and should be pretty cheap. (I used a generic one from Carquest rather than PT's...it was about $15, so I'd assume PT's is probably $30... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif)In the PT owner's manual, look for a picture or listing of the "kill solenoid" (not sure why they call it that).

Let's hope it's actually the solenoid, because if it's the starter, I *think* you're going to have to pull the engine out to take the starter off the motor. At least, that's what was necessary with my B&S model, might be different for the Kohler's or Robin's...at least I hope it is!

HTH,
Dave

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I had the same problem last year with my White lawn mower...turns out the battery needed replacing. How old is your battery?