My Dodge is at a crossroads...

[MChalkley]

As I mentioned in another post, I hauled my EarthForce down to Florida to do some volunteer hurricane relief work in September/October. On the way back from the 2600-mile trip, my clutch master cylinder went out. It's a long story (most things I do seem to end up that way...), but they last me about 25,000 miles, because the pressure plate is extra strong to handle the torque from the hopped-up engine. The clutch itself is fine, but the tranny (a 2001 6-speed I had custom-installed) is beginning to growl in 3rd and 4th, so it's beginning to show signs of succumbing to the strain, too. So, a transmission replacement is in the truck's immediate future and the clutch master and slave cylinder problem is a lot more hassle than you would think because I have to have the pushrod on the master cylinder machined every time I replace it so the new body style master cylinder will fit in my old body style truck. (It's a 2001 transmission in a '93 truck, remember?) So, with all that said, page 2:

Part of the time I was in Florida, I was in the panhandle during the curfew-enforcement, with no traffic lights working, National Guard checkpoints everywhere, and terrible stop-and-go traffic. While meditating on the fact that the quadricep muscle is supposedly the largest in the body, and the fact that when it decides to start cramping, it's easy to believe it's the largest, I decided I wanted an automatic transmission in my truck. I've never been an automatic advocate, but all the guys who hop trucks up for a living nowadays say they can be built to handle the diesel torque better than the manuals can, and from my experience, I'm beginning to believe them.

So I started researching what it would take to shoehorn a highly tricked-out automatic tranny into my '93. I really wanted to put an Allison in, but that seems out of the question. My 4wd makes it more difficult, but I can't live without that. I'm not about to go to a tranny that doesn't have a lockup torque converter, either. So that leaves me with going to a 47 or 518 with all the guts redone to handle the torque. Getting the tranny is the easy part. Putting it in my '93 is another matter, apparently. Having talked to a dozen or so shops that have done it, it's not going to be pretty. Or cheap. In fact, I could go out and buy a newer model Dodge, hop it up, replace the tranny, etc. and still spend about the same amount. (Mostly because my '93 also needs some body work, paint job, new front springs, etc.)

So, I'm soliciting ideas and opinions from the TBN brain trust. Also, if anybody hears of a good deal on a '98 Dodge 2500 or 3500 Quad Cab 4wd long bed automatic with the Cummins 12V engine (the 8th digit of the VIN is a 'D' if it's a 12V, a '6' if it's a 24V). Why a '98? 'Cause it's the only year that came with the Quad Cab and the 12V engine. I really don't want the 24V, because it's not as easy for me to tinker with. Plus the newer it gets, the more expensive it's going to be, and I need to keep the cost down as much as I can.

 

[goodoleboy]

Best bet would be an off fleet vehicle.
Since tyhe crew cabs and diesels together make one popular truck.

good luck

 

[MChalkley]

No, it's probably not going to be easy to find. But I'm not looking for a crew cab, with four full doors. I'm looking for the Quad Cab, the one with the 2 full doors and two half-doors for access to the back seat.

 

[Dargo]

Yes, the '98 12v quad cabs are nice. I agree on the transmission issue. I spent all of my high school and college years shifting gears because I couldn't afford a car that was "loaded". Back then, "loaded" to me meant that the car had an automatic transmission and A/C.

Just last night I picked my '96 Dodge up after having a transmission put in it that would handle the power. After trying the torque converter and throttle body deal twice with stock transmissions, I figured that I'd bite the bullet and get a "real" transmission that was designed to take the power and torque. I don't have "twins" or anything in my truck, but I do have over 400 hp and over 1100 ft. lbs. of torque.

There are basically three companies who will provide a transmission that will take the power, Goerend Bros., Suncoast, and ATS. I have heard good things about each. I personally went with ATS because they seemed to be the tranny of choice at most of the diesel drags and truck pulls. They stand behind their transmissions too. The one I picked up last night is one that they replaced for me. The transmission shop that installed it told me that I'd distorted the case in the previous one from the torque.

Some guys take offense to it, but there isn't a better diesel engine out there for a pickup than the 12v Cummins. My father has been a diesel mechanic for over 40 years as well as has a good friend neighbor. The neighbor is a Ford nut through and through, but after several years, he had to admit after working on hundreds of them that the Cummins was just a stronger rig. He is the guy who showed me the website where he bought his conversion parts to put a 12v Cummins in his 2003 Ford super duty.

If you can find a '98 quad with a few miles on it but with maintenance records, it will be worth your trouble. Sometimes you can sneak up on one. At one point this last year I thought I wanted a new diesel truck since mine is a '96. I drove the new Fords, Dodges, and GM models in the 1 ton dually 4X4 like I have now, except with a crew cab rather than my extended cab model. After having the power I now have, they all three felt extremely weak. I just couldn't sell my truck and go with one that was so weak.

By the way, I drove each brand of the new diesel pickup down the exact same route and floored each in the same spot and then checked my speed at a particular sign on the road. All three ran nearly identical speeds. So, from the factory, they all pull almost exactly the same now. Good luck finding a '98 quad. They are out there.

 

[MChalkley]

I would, of course, be looking for the hardest to find truck out there. But, as you say, I may sneak up on one. After all, the TBN'ers are all out there beating the bushes for me. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I'm definitely in the Cummins camp, myself. I'd own a Ford if they came with the Cummins, so my loyalties are definitely with the engine, not the truck brand. But, to each his own.

What have you done to your engine to get it to 1100 ft-lbs? My '93 was dyno'ed at well over 800 before I smoked a rear tire, and that was before I put bigger injectors in it. Most of the guys I talk to, even the ones that build them, don't believe me when I tell them that though. Of course, when they hear how many clutches and universal joints I've been through, and that I've now toasted a supposedly near-bullet-proof NV5600, they start to wonder if it might just possibly be true...

 

[RobertN]

Could you give more detail on the engine differences? I know I have a 24v, but my knowledge ends there /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

What is it about the new engines that makes things more difficult to work on? Is it the mechanics, or the new knowledge set to work on the different engine?

Either way, I wanna ride in it! The one you have now, and the one you intend to build. Well, I really want to drive it, but... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Egon]

The 24 valve has a higher pressure oil filter than the 12 valve for starters.

Egon

 

[sassafraspete]

My guess is that electronics introduced in 98, probably make aftermarket conversion a different ballgame ?

sassafraspete

 

[Dargo]

My little ole' 6 just has a reworked and recalibrated fuel pump, #10 fuel plate, 425 injectors, 3000 rpm governor springs, larger turbo housing, killed KDP, BHAF, and 5" exhaust. That's about all off of the top of my head, besides the ATS tranny setup and the 3 required pillar gauges. Without power-braking (that's hard on everything) it will spin all 4 rear tires pretty easily all the way through first gear. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
On the dyno, my truck was strapped down pretty hard. Besides, with the locking rear differential and dual rear wheels, it grabs pretty well. To do any more to mine, I'd have to put in larger head studs and add twins. So far, everything has been "relatively" inexpensive. Adding twins and "O" ringing the head and adding larger studs would be mighty spendy! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[MChalkley]

RobertN,

For most folks' money, it's splitting hairs to discuss 12v vs. 24v Cummins engines. But for the nuts, a camp I've been firmly within for some time now (whether it's trucks, tractors, coffee, whatever), there are some fairly big differences. The 24v engine has an injection pump that's a little harder to tweak, and won't put as much fuel out when you max it out (not that that's an issue for 99 out of 100 owners). It's more expensive to work on the 24v head, if you need to redo the valve springs, port and polish, etc. The electronics are a bit more convoluted. Those are the things that I can think of at the moment. Some say the 24v head is tougher, but the highest hp engines I've ever seen are always the 12v ones, and they're not hurting the head, so I don't know why it would need to be tougher, or how you'd know.