MX4700DT nasty, expensive noises

[sunandsand]

He either bought it new or almost new, and he now has 1970 or so hours on it. He uses it pretty hard and he uses it a LOT, mows, grades, digs, repeat. It lives outside most of the time and the Kubota Orange paint has faded almost to Mary Kay pink. I will say he does change the oil and filters regularly, so he does maintain it.

This is one of those "can't look away" things. The advantage of following this is that we can learn a lot about what to look for and what not to do on our own tractors. Don't pull on the rear propellor shaft, part X is a normal wear item and doesn't indicate that it is busted, don't be afraid to spend a few bucks and get the manual, and so on.

I think that is one of the most important functions of TBN and groups like it. Someone has a problem or a question, instead of reinventing the wheel on your own dime, ask the group because chances are good that someone, somewhere has already solved the problem for you or can advise you how to best proceed.

I join the appropriate users group for every vehicle I own. Sometimes they are a waste of time (No, you are not going to make your 1990 John Deere Gator go supersonic) and some, like TBN, are invaluable. I have learned a LOT being a member of TBN, have saved myself a LOT of money, learned how to better utilize my equipment and not break it (or myself), and more. TBN, by the way, is the ONLY group I've seen that doesn't have a thread about how can I pick up 30+ hp for $200 and go faster? . . . or maybe I just haven't found it yet ;-)

When he finally fixes it, and he will, I'll report what it was, how it was done, how much it cost, and how to prevent it in the future. Further, I will thank everyone who has freely contributed their knowledge and advice.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[JWR]

Oh I agree with you sunandsand -- all quite true and well said. So if my voyeurism comment was just a little too sarcastic, my apologies.

 

[sunandsand]

No offense taken JWR ;-)

Problem with the internet is that all we get is the words, no context, no non-verbal cues, just the words, and it is very easy to misinterpret even an innocent statement, especially nowadays when just about everybody seems to be upset about something all the time.

My buddy's "adventure" with his tractor could be a cautionary tale (of woe), and it isn't over.

When he does get it fixed, I absolutely will NOT play Monday morning quarterback and say "Told ya so" although I do admit that I might think it . . .

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[rScotty]

I wonder if a good borescope could take a look at both those things - the front driveshaft coupling and the diff lock?

 

[sunandsand]

Incremental progress. He was able to fish out the rear coupling with a "grabber" I lent him - four fingers on a flexible shaft (from Harbor Freight, I think), and using a length of welding rod, finagle the rear coupling back into place. He then re-inserted the rear half of the propeller shaft and it went correctly. (He did admit he learned something - "I never should have pulled that out in the first place.")

He was able to borrow a borescope but wound up not using it. (Yet.)

He's now waiting for some seals and a microswitch (PTO lockout or something) that Kubota is VERY proud of. The microswitch has a short pigtail and a connector, Kubota wants $34 for it. The switch itself might cost a whole buck at Mouser Electronics, but the two wires and the connector are obviously made of gold, as is the plastic bag it comes in.

Once the parts are in, he will button up the tractor, refill the hydraulic fluid and give it a whirl. I'll be overjoyed if the noise went away, but I won't be surprised if it didn't. I'm not going to spread doom and gloom . . .

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[rScotty]

Mike, were you ever a sports announcer? Or wannabe? I'm jealous!

Twenty years as a mechanic and nobody ever did a play by play for one of my jobs. So sad...

rScotty

 

[Fixastuff]

$34 dollars for a tractor part isn't worth complaining about, yall cheap!

 

[sunandsand]

Mike, were you ever a sports announcer? Or wannabe? I'm jealous!

Twenty years as a mechanic and nobody ever did a play by play for one of my jobs. So sad...

rScotty

Actually I was a sports announcer ONE time . . . friend of mine worked at a radio station and did announcing for the bike races at Daytona Speedway. He asked me to take one race because he had something else to do which could not wait. I drove over to the speedway, found a place to park, and got to announce at the 125cc race. Amusing - one of the pit crews doused their rider in gasoline (accidentally, I'm sure) and managed to set him and the bike on fire. He had enough presence of mind to put it in gear (engine running at the pit stop) and drive away from the flames while his pit crew frantically searched for a fire extinguisher. He finished the race! (Talk about a hard-*** biker!) I also got a parking ticket from the speedway - thanks fer nuttin!

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[sunandsand]

$34 dollars for a tractor part isn't worth complaining about, yall cheap!

Who me, cheap? Well frugal, maybe. I've been told that I can squeeze nickels so hard that *I* am the reason the buffalo on the nickel has only three legs . . .


$34 for a tractor part isn't worth complaining about if the tractor manufacturer made the part. Here, they didn't. Microswitches are cheap (maybe a buck each) and the other $33 is for Kubota to put them in a bag with orange lettering on it. Yes, I know they need to show a profit to stay in business, but this kind of markup on a pretty widely available part is a tad excessive. (Evidently the CEO needs a bigger yacht or something.)

They're not alone. Years ago (like in the mid-60s!) I worked for the BMW automobile importer for the east coast - Max Hoffman - which was before BMWNA took it away from him. I ran the warranty department for a while, then decided I'd really rather live in Florida and left.

The cars had a smog pump, and they failed - a lot. The replacement pump cost over $200 (remember we are talking the mid-60s when $200 wasn't exactly sofa money) and came in a pretty blue box with a BMW emblem and "Im Werk Gepruft" printed on it.

Inside the box was a gen-you-wine GM smog pump as used on a bazillion domestic cars, and sold for $30 retail, quantity one. BMW bought them from GM, shipped them to Bavaria, put them into the pretty cardboard boxes and shipped them back, with a HEFTY markup. Hey, that cardboard is expensive, ya know?

The factory could never understand why the crazy Americans wanted air conditioning, but eventually realized that it was hard to sell cars here without it. We started getting cars with "Kuhl-Meister" air conditioning, which after a cursory look, turned out to be an aftermarket unit kludged together and manufactured by a company in some obscure portion of the black forest known as "Houston, Texas", and again, with a hefty markup.

The 2002 was a lovely little car, but when the Kuhl-Meister AC was added, it knackered the car to the point that it could barely outun a Vespa. It also had a York piston compressor almost as big as the car's engine, and the compressor tended to grenade spectacularly.

I am ALWAYS willing to pay a fair price for what I need or want, but I confess I do get a bit cranky when someone puts a 900% markup on something that is widely and easily available at a far lower price.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[Fixastuff]

Who me, cheap? Well frugal, maybe. I've been told that I can squeeze nickels so hard that *I* am the reason the buffalo on the nickel has only three legs . . .


$34 for a tractor part isn't worth complaining about if the tractor manufacturer made the part. Here, they didn't. Microswitches are cheap (maybe a buck each) and the other $33 is for Kubota to put them in a bag with orange lettering on it. Yes, I know they need to show a profit to stay in business, but this kind of markup on a pretty widely available part is a tad excessive. (Evidently the CEO needs a bigger yacht or something.)

They're not alone. Years ago (like in the mid-60s!) I worked for the BMW automobile importer for the east coast - Max Hoffman - which was before BMWNA took it away from him. I ran the warranty department for a while, then decided I'd really rather live in Florida and left.

The cars had a smog pump, and they failed - a lot. The replacement pump cost over $200 (remember we are talking the mid-60s when $200 wasn't exactly sofa money) and came in a pretty blue box with a BMW emblem and "Im Werk Gepruft" printed on it.

Inside the box was a gen-you-wine GM smog pump as used on a bazillion domestic cars, and sold for $30 retail, quantity one. BMW bought them from GM, shipped them to Bavaria, put them into the pretty cardboard boxes and shipped them back, with a HEFTY markup. Hey, that cardboard is expensive, ya know?

The factory could never understand why the crazy Americans wanted air conditioning, but eventually realized that it was hard to sell cars here without it. We started getting cars with "Kuhl-Meister" air conditioning, which after a cursory look, turned out to be an aftermarket unit kludged together and manufactured by a company in some obscure portion of the black forest known as "Houston, Texas", and again, with a hefty markup.

The 2002 was a lovely little car, but when the Kuhl-Meister AC was added, it knackered the car to the point that it could barely outun a Vespa. It also had a York piston compressor almost as big as the car's engine, and the compressor tended to grenade spectacularly.

I am ALWAYS willing to pay a fair price for what I need or want, but I confess I do get a bit cranky when someone puts a 900% markup on something that is widely and easily available at a far lower price.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

Then buy the microswitch for $1 and make the wiring work if it's so easy.

 

[sunandsand]

Well it really and truly IS that easy, but he doesn't want to do it that way. His tractor, his decision. If it were mine, I'd buy the dollar special and solder the two wires - I even offered to solder them for him, nope, he isn't having any. He da boss.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[sunandsand]

He's stalled . . .

Putting the halves of the tractor back together isn't going real well. Something is blocking it from closing the last 7/8". The halves were not lined up properly either vertically or horizontally. He/we jiggled stuff around until they were. The bolts all line up now, the gaps on each side and top/bottom are the same, it just doesn't want to "click" in the last 7/8".

The mainshaft is in the clutch plate, the lower shafts turn freely. I've suggested that he engage the rear PTO and rotate the transmission from there by hand because that's easier than trying to rotate the engine. Last time he split the tractor, it went back together much more easily, this time it has been two days and no joy.

There's *something* blocking it from going back together. He's been wiggling it by putting his back against the rear tires and all he's done is get a sore back and blisters. He has miscellaneous jacks and blocks keeping everything in alignment (up/down, right/left) and has some of the bolts started to retain that alignment - but it just won't go the last bit.

Tightening the bolts to force it together is inadvisable, that is just going to break whatever is stopping it.

Open to suggestions from the collective!

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[JWR]

Is there a pilot bearing? If so the small center shaft may not be lining up quite right with the hole in the pilot bearing. I have seen that issue on cars. The 7/8" would fit that thinking. Are there alignment 'pins' besides the bolts and holes? Man this is painful just visualizing it. A problem I suspect is that the two main assemblies involved are just too heavy to jiggle/move manually. I don't know how to deal with that. MAYBE you could gingerly approach the inadvisable -- tighten up one bolt on one side and when it encounters resistance THEN do whatever you can to wiggle/rotate the parts... ??

I guess back to the idea of endoscope. For about $14 you can buy an endoscope that mates to your smartphone.They have LED light on the end and are very small (like 1/4" diameter or another one I have is 3/8".) Then you could look up in there and try to see what the hold up is ...

 

[sunandsand]

I agree, it really does sound like the pilot bearing. And oh, boy the halves of the tractor are WAY too heavy to horse around! There are alignment pins, but the halves are still too far apart to let them engage.

It sounds to me like he might have to un-align the halves slightly (up/down or right/left) and then start wiggling and shoving the halves while someone turns the PTO shaft - and hope it finally pops into place.

Once the halves are mated, he still has half a day hooking up all the plumbing, wiring, levers, whoosies, whatsies and watchamacallits so he can try it out.

And it is getting HOT, 90 degrees today, fortunately, he has shade (fabric arch roof) to work under. I do NOT envy him right about now.

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[MHarryE]

When I saw your first post, it reminded me of my BIL’s L3000 several years ago. Acted the same way, okay in 2wd and 4wd going straight, but turn and the crunch began. I was sure it was in the rear end so another BIL and I tore it apart. No problem after examining everything. We had to go to the front. Kubota didn’t have lube fittings on the front pivot points and both wore - very bad - and the front axle rocked. It had worse most of the splines on both the couplings and drive shaft ruining them. BIL two found a machine shop that machines and sleeved the front axle trunions, also reworked the front and rear pivot caps - and installed grease zeros. It’s still running fine 9 years later. Darn noise was transmitted through the drive shaft to the rear housing fooling us.

 

[rScotty]

Then buy the microswitch for $1 and make the wiring work if it's so easy.

That's what I did. Kubota wanted way too much for their third function microswitch that I broke taking it out. With a magnifying glass, I found numbers printed on the switch and ordered it from Amazon using the ID number printed right on the switch. Instead of paying Kubota $80 for a switch, Amazon sent me three switches in different configurations for under $5.00 including shipping. One was a direct replacement.

There's been several threads on doing that with Kubota switches here on TBN. Including mine. A lot of Kubota parts are reasonable. Their electrical switches are not, but oddly enough their turn signals are.
rScotty

 

[5030]

I cross all the relays and other electrical items on both my Kubota's with the parts listings on Digi-Key or Dell Electronics.. Typically, a relay at the dealership will be 70 bucks plus and the same exact part, part number and manufacturer will be less than a 10 spot (shipping included) on either site. I have no issue buying OEM at the dealer but on electrical stuff Kubota markup is insane.

 

[sunandsand]

Wellllll, here's the update. (Sunday evening, 5/8)

He was able to get it back together with a lot of cussing, wiggling, pounding and so forth from him and some help from people pushing and pulling on the wheels, wiggling the jacks and so forth. I guess the tractor realized it was outnumbered and gave up - it went "click" and slid together - it was hanging up on the pilot bearing as suspected.

It appears I was barking up the wrong tree and I was wrong about the diff lock pins, and quite frankly, I am glad that I was wrong. He doesn't need any more expensive problems. (I still would have looked inside the rear cover, just to be sure, but that's me, and it isn't my tractor.)

What seems to have been happening is that the front coupling was so worn as to be ratcheting under load, intermittently skipping teeth and grabbing, and the noise was transmitted to the rear end, making us think the problem was there, and it was not.

He replaced the front coupling and front drive shaft, an oil seal in the bell housing and the utterly worn out tie rod ends (and that expensive microswitch). He did disassemble and look at the front drive axles, some bearings and checked the front differential, and they are all fine. The steering components, as MHarryE mentioned above, were very dry and the seals were shot (replaced). Fortunately there were no metal "sparklies" or chips in the oil, and no water had entered to make the oil milky.

He's out mowing, and I *think* he's OK now. I'll keep my fingers crossed that my suspicions were unfounded and that he's back in business.

As the Bard said a long time ago, all's well that ends well, but I doubt he was talking about tractors ;-)

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida

 

[5030]

One thing I never buy is oem tie rod ends, always aftermarket. OEM ends have no grease fittings and are super expensive. Aftermarket are cheaper and come with grease fittings.

 

[JethroB]

Nice to see a thread end with a positive conclusion.