Mulching SLOOOWWW anyone?

[Landwise]

The mulching business around here seems to have dried up. The big boys and their big toys around here have started working for $300 and $400 per acre, which is KILLING me. Are the rest of you staying pretty busy or what?

I can't afford to work for that, so I can't compete with them. It used to be that the guys with the Prentices and Hydroaxes and such were getting $750 to $1200 per acre, and they were so busy that they wouldn't move on anything smaller than 50 acres, unless they just happened to be in the area.

I was just cutting on a 30 acre peice. We were only going to cut about 7 acres out in the middle, then let the customer do his walking around. We were contracted to do 7 at $500 per. We finished the 7, and he called me and said he wanted to do the rest, but a company with a Fecon FTX440 would do it for $350 per and have it done in 1 to 2 days....

How do you compete with that? If it wasn't for my 080 excavator and my small dump truck, i would be in a lot of trouble right now...

 

[Eagleview]

As i have mentioned before , people are in trouble and are concentrating on paying off their credit cards , the house and keeping the kids fed and clothed . A bit of scrub down the back of their paddock will just have too wait . With the price of fuel , food , interest rates and inflation people are simply spent . They have been trying to make ends meet using credit cards to pay overdue house loans and fuel etc . When one is maxed out they simply fill in the form that is sitting in their mailbox and get another . They now not only owe big time on the house but also big time on the cards . I think we are all going to be in deep doodoo soon and i now regret spending money on my excavator as it's not even a good looking garden ornament .

 

[yellowdogsvc]

Things have slowed down and there will always be those who undercut and work for free. They can't last long at that rate. If they break something on a $350 acre, they will have an expensive day.
I haven't cut my rates and get about 1 or 2 in 10 bids but my quality has stayed up AND I will offer just a wee bit more for my customers. I would seek those who want quality over quantity. How nice can a $350 Acre look? I guess if you want the "bomb went off" look but if I was hiring someone I would want quality..but that's just me.

 

[Renze]

I guess if you want the "bomb went off" look but if I was hiring someone I would want quality..but that's just me.

I have a friend in Finland who is contracting round bale wrapped silage. He turned up his prices, lost one old nagging customer who said he was too expensive, but gained 2 other large customers, because they saw and heard about the quality of the work he delivered.

 

[atgreene]

Everything today has to be sold on quality. Anybody can make a widget, your widget needs to walk talk and cry on command.

I hesitated in buying a large excavator, as I saw so many guys running around doing foundations and septics that they were stepping all over themselves. I stayed mini and concentrated on the niche market, erosion control, steep driveways, difficult septics, and thus far it seems to be working. I do the jobs no one else wants and have a huge customer list that calls me for everything from 1 yard of loam to complete erosion jobs in sensative areas.

The problem your having is the big guys have slowed down and are grabing your bread and butter. Until it gets real bad and a few drop out, you need to concentrate on a niche in the market and make yourself the "go-to-guy" for that niche.

 

[LoneCowboy]

Look, I don't know mulching, but I know business.
and larger equipment is simply a LOT more efficient and they can price you out of anything that simply isn't too small for them to get into.

It costs so much to do one acre (transport, drive out there, unload, etc, etc, etc)
But it doesn't cost that much more to do 2 acres.
And 10 acres, well, you can stay there for a day or two, lot better and the price per acre is less.

what if my machine, which costs 10/20% more but I can go twice as fast and we are bidding on a 1/2/3 day job?

I can undercut you by 40% and still make more money than you.

Something to think about.

and yes, business is all slow and payments seem to be getting mighty slow too.

 

[kmdigital]

Weren't there a number of posts a year ago about people contemplating taking out BIG loans and getting into this business? I remember trying to disuade one of them from taking on a lot of debt to start a new business, in which he didn't even have any customers yet, and if I recall he was convinced that it was the best thing to do. And a number of other people told him the same thing. I don't recall if went and bought one, but I suspect he probably did. And is now probably wishing like heck he wouldn't have.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Weren't there a number of posts a year ago about people contemplating taking out BIG loans and getting into this business? I remember trying to disuade one of them from taking on a lot of debt to start a new business, in which he didn't even have any customers yet, and if I recall he was convinced that it was the best thing to do. And a number of other people told him the same thing. I don't recall if went and bought one, but I suspect he probably did. And is now probably wishing like heck he wouldn't have.

Some times people will do what they want to do regardless to if it makes sense to others. I was told I was stupid to want to get into farming but I did anyways because I love it. If I didn't jump in when I did I would still be going thru the motions working construction. I enjoy construction work but not as an everyday job where as I love farming every day. I still can't live on just the farm alone (well, I could but not the lifestyle I want to provide for my daughter). I know there are a lot of other people like me who could make a lot more money doing something they don't like but what fun is that. Just don't burn any bridges and if things get tough you can always fall back on your previous job (or similar) to get thru hard times. But I will always encourage others to do what they enjoy as long as they can do so without hurting their family in the process.

As for the mulching business, things are slow in just about every business right now. The hay market has taken a hit also as the high hay and feed prices have made a lot of the small horse farms sell off their horses. I lost a lot of my smaller customers and have to rely on my bigger customers now as well as look at other markets (custom work)

 

[QwikDraw]

Weren't there a number of posts a year ago about people contemplating taking out BIG loans and getting into this business? I remember trying to disuade one of them from taking on a lot of debt to start a new business, in which he didn't even have any customers yet, and if I recall he was convinced that it was the best thing to do. And a number of other people told him the same thing. I don't recall if went and bought one, but I suspect he probably did. And is now probably wishing like heck he wouldn't have.

Does that make you feel better KMloser saying "I told you so" ??
If I was that guy and you were standing in front of me I'd knock your front teeth out! but of course you are hidding behing your computer throwing stones...
People take chances, it's better than standing by and saying I should have.

I've got about 2 weeks ahead of me and a 6 week job signed. In July I had 3 weeks of down time, just a few small jobs. I'm doing some ROW mowing that I will need to add a tractor and 15' batwing to the fleet, looking now.

Hang in there Landwise...jobs seem to come by when you least expect them.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

If I was that guy and you were standing in front of me I'd knock your front teeth out!

So tell me how you really feel

 

[cann mulching]

Yea the mulching is slow here in MS for me, but the Good Lord just keeps me busy enough to pay bills though!! I would love to sell my ASV but can't get payoff for it, so gotta run it. Landwise you & Quickdraw havin any problems with heating of the ASV while mulching?? I need some advice to keep it cool!!

 

[Landwise]

I thank you guys for the words of encouragement. More venting than anything.

The company that took this job from me moved a Fecon FTX440. I expected more... He only did twice the work in one day than I did in one day with my little supertracks TL150 and a Quickaxe. He didn't get anywhere near as much work done in one day as he told the customer he would, but priced it by the job, not the hour. This company is one of the largest mulching companies around. In fact, the mulching business is a subsidiary of a much larger parent company that works all over the southeast.

I am in no danger of going out of business. As a matter of fact, I am going to look at a PT400 and PT200 on monday, just so I know what they can do for future purchase decissions. On that note, I hope the FTX440 I saw work today either has a problem or a green operator. I could put on two more SK150's for less money, and do 1.5 to 2 times more work than he did today with the exception of the large trees that he choose to take.

To the ASV- I can't sell mine either. 07 model, 400 hours, full forestry package and the head- $55,000 would get it, but I can't get a bite.

 

[QwikDraw]

I've only had over heating issues on a couple of days. I find when the tracks are packed with mud and the hoses are not getting any air it runs hotter. That fixed my issue. I only see a few days in the upper 90s - 100, not like you guys down south. It made a difference with my machine, I am sure you keep the radiators blown out a few times per day and power wash them often (right).
I washed out my radiator on the AC unit a month ago, wow, what a difference.

 

[kmdigital]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Last year I wasn't trying to talk him out of going into business, rather my argument was that it was not good business sense to go $80k+ into debt to buy a brand new machine when he was just starting out in business. I suggested trying to find a good used machine for 1/2 or less of that amount, so that his debt and monthly payments would be lower. But he thought he needed brand new, and others agreed with him. Hopefully he isn't regretting it.

I'm not against following your dreams, but I am against bad financial decisions based on primarily on satisfying ego and need for status.

 

[Terra Firma Scott]

People take chances, it's better than standing by and saying I should have.

Hit The Nail on the head Quick!!
If i ever pulled the plug on mulching and decided this wasnt for me, I WOULD HAVE NO REGRETS and woulndt be wondering the rest of my life about it!!!!

Slow here too-great time to work on your machines....and think up other ways to attract biz...

 

[cann mulching]

Yes here in MS the heat & humidity are just killer on the heating issue. Quickdraw what kind of hydraulic fluid do you run?? I was told to go back with cat oil for better cooling!!
I am thinking of changing my teeth to the planer teeth from Eagle Claw Tooth for the magnum! Anybody running them??

 

[QwikDraw]

I run whatever I can find. From John Deere to Exxon right now, I didn't know it would effect the heat.

 

[cbturf]

I have heard that mulching has gotten kinda slow but I have been to busy to notice. I know that I am VERY blessed to have more work than I can handle. Now on to the 440 only being twice as fast as your little machines. I had a little machine and my 140 is more than twice as fast as it was, and I have a little seat time in a 440 and it will mulch more than the 140 by a long way. I can only assume that the operator was green or going very easy. The larger machines are so much more productive than the small ones that you can charge less and make more. You had better be careful charging to much less the 440 will sip up to 22 gallons per hour of fuel. Better be clearing more that 2 acres a day at that rate!

 

[Landwise]

CB

I spoke with the operator yesterday. He asked me if that was my Takeuchi that was sitting there when he got there and I told him it was. Then, he asked me how long it had taken me to do what I had done. When I told him, he said- I hate this peice of #$*%. He is only able to cut 6-7 acres per day in material that I was able to cut 4-5. He is not green, and has been with this company for 6 years. Also, he ran a Braun for 4 years before this.

He really thinks something is wrong, as this is the second one of these 440s this company has had. The first one was so bad (according to him) that Fecon bought it back. He says that the smaller Braun will out work this machine 2 to 1.

But back to the meat of the original post-. They have now spent 2.5 days cutting 16 acres with a close to $400,000 machine for around $160 per acre. How do you deal with that? They have to be loosing their &$$, or maybe they are just trying to teach me a lesson.....I may have finally gotten their attention. They know I am here......

 

[cbturf]

Dealing with that is easy...just wait until they go bankrupt then you get all of the work! Last Saturday and Sunday I cleared 24 acres on the 140. I only got to work 8 hours each day so that I would not disturb the neighbors so I was clearing 1.5 acres per hour. I knew that the 440s had a few problems but they fixed them all with factory upgrades. Even though my 140 has run out of the factory warranty when Fecon gets a new upgrade they are still installing it on the machine. I still think the operator is not performing up to snuff, if a 440 horsepower machine putting 2000 lb/ft of torque to the cutting head will not run circles around your Tak. he is slacking somewhere. I am not running down the Tak. but the 440 is a huge machine and should be a huge performer. If the machine is running that bad it needs to go to the shop.