tracdoc
Platinum Member
I like the logic of that.
Mowed the down slope pretty well
- Thread starter pequeajim
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Gravy
Platinum Member
I think reversing the rear wheels would probably reduce the risk of an actual turnover, but the seat is attached to the front, and there's that 12 degrees of oscillation that helps keep the pucker factor interesting...
Dave
Dave
BobRip
Elite Member
Good point. So just having reverse on the rear wheels would not be as effective as all four by a lot.
Bob Rip
Bob Rip
BillCroasmun
Gold Member
Actually this makes me wonder... Since the front and back can be up to 12 deg. different, wouldn't you have to look at the center of gravity separately for both halves.
I'm no engineer by any means but I think the gain of stability, by increasing the width, would be relative to how low the CG already is. I think what I'm trying to say is adding 6" of base to something that is already top heavy would make a larger difference than to something with a low CG.
If this is true other than the ROPS and the driver the front end of a PT seems like it maintains all it's weight pretty low (assuming we're talking about mowing) but the back has the engine sitting relatively high.
If I am making any sense at all, reversing only the back may be a good way to go if your concerned about premature wear and tear.
I myself respect Fourteens opinion though and his experience has been exceptionally positive with all four turned... Should I feel the need for more stability I'll probably follow his lead. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I'm no engineer by any means but I think the gain of stability, by increasing the width, would be relative to how low the CG already is. I think what I'm trying to say is adding 6" of base to something that is already top heavy would make a larger difference than to something with a low CG.
If this is true other than the ROPS and the driver the front end of a PT seems like it maintains all it's weight pretty low (assuming we're talking about mowing) but the back has the engine sitting relatively high.
If I am making any sense at all, reversing only the back may be a good way to go if your concerned about premature wear and tear.
I myself respect Fourteens opinion though and his experience has been exceptionally positive with all four turned... Should I feel the need for more stability I'll probably follow his lead. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
If you all recognize me, you probably know that I have little to say, except the occassional question. I spend my time lurking and sponging up your knowledge!
I live on the side of an Appelation hill. I don't know my slop measurements, or really how to measure them. If what you are measuring is the acute angle between the hypotnuse and the base, I'd estimate my slopes to be between 25 and 40 degrees. I don't even attempt the steepest with my 180. I hire local kids to weedeat it a couple of times in the summer. I am hitting the 25 degree ones regularly, though. All the way up to last week, I'd done it by going straight up the hill with the mower raised and off, then back down with it lowered and on, without changing the wheels. Last week, I thought that I'd try changing the wheels to see if I could get some more out of the 180.
Now, granted, I have another side progect going that may have tainted my experiment. I am also filling in an inground pool with dirt that I am digging out of the hillside. That is what I was doing the day before I mowed with the wheels changed. I worked it pretty hard. I'll start another thread about that project if I ever get my digital camera stuff straightened out to give pictures.
On to changing the wheels... I went down my paved driveway and after mowing just a few minutes on a relatively flat part of my property, I noticed a squeeling sound coming from my right rear wheel. After about fifteen minutes I stopped mowing because I had to go get my son. As I drove up the driveway, there was a noticable decrease in the 180's power from what it usually has going up the drive. After I picked up my son, I changed the wheels back. I still had some power loss, though it got a little better.
I don't know if I can attribute this to changing the wheels, overworking it digging, poor digging technique (although, I tried to bear in mind previously mentioned tips on digging), or maybe I just need to do something simple like change the hydrolic oil filter, but there was a measurable power loss. I'll be changing the filter and oil on my next day off. Hopefully that will fix it.
I live on the side of an Appelation hill. I don't know my slop measurements, or really how to measure them. If what you are measuring is the acute angle between the hypotnuse and the base, I'd estimate my slopes to be between 25 and 40 degrees. I don't even attempt the steepest with my 180. I hire local kids to weedeat it a couple of times in the summer. I am hitting the 25 degree ones regularly, though. All the way up to last week, I'd done it by going straight up the hill with the mower raised and off, then back down with it lowered and on, without changing the wheels. Last week, I thought that I'd try changing the wheels to see if I could get some more out of the 180.
Now, granted, I have another side progect going that may have tainted my experiment. I am also filling in an inground pool with dirt that I am digging out of the hillside. That is what I was doing the day before I mowed with the wheels changed. I worked it pretty hard. I'll start another thread about that project if I ever get my digital camera stuff straightened out to give pictures.
On to changing the wheels... I went down my paved driveway and after mowing just a few minutes on a relatively flat part of my property, I noticed a squeeling sound coming from my right rear wheel. After about fifteen minutes I stopped mowing because I had to go get my son. As I drove up the driveway, there was a noticable decrease in the 180's power from what it usually has going up the drive. After I picked up my son, I changed the wheels back. I still had some power loss, though it got a little better.
I don't know if I can attribute this to changing the wheels, overworking it digging, poor digging technique (although, I tried to bear in mind previously mentioned tips on digging), or maybe I just need to do something simple like change the hydrolic oil filter, but there was a measurable power loss. I'll be changing the filter and oil on my next day off. Hopefully that will fix it.
FOURTEEN
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
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- 1,042
- Location
- Efland - Triangle of North Carolina.
- Tractor
- 2004 Power Trac PT-425
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( For the warranty period, I expect to follow Terry's advice, but after next Thanksgiving when my warranty runs out, Dave )</font>
<font color="red"> I just think that you may be way way too cautious and conservative!
I recently bought a 2005 Dodge Magnum with a 340 HP HEMI. Do you think that I should only use 1/4 throttle for the next 7 years, or 70,000 miles, because it may be less likely to require a repair under my warranty if I do??
Do you think that due to warranty concerns I hesitated more than 1 second before putting 265/35ZR22 tires on it??!! I'm sure that they produce more stress on the Magnum than the OEM tires. But I wouldn't go back!!
99.9% of the time, higher performance costs more money!
Using Reversed Wheels on a PT-425 not only increases its performance and safety, but may actually be in that other .1%!!
</font>
<font color="red"> I just think that you may be way way too cautious and conservative!
I recently bought a 2005 Dodge Magnum with a 340 HP HEMI. Do you think that I should only use 1/4 throttle for the next 7 years, or 70,000 miles, because it may be less likely to require a repair under my warranty if I do??
Do you think that due to warranty concerns I hesitated more than 1 second before putting 265/35ZR22 tires on it??!! I'm sure that they produce more stress on the Magnum than the OEM tires. But I wouldn't go back!!
99.9% of the time, higher performance costs more money!
Using Reversed Wheels on a PT-425 not only increases its performance and safety, but may actually be in that other .1%!!
</font>
Gravy
Platinum Member
I have two reasons for swapping back and forth:
One, I feel that the manufacturer should not be held responsible to warranty damage from uses that they specifically advise against.
They designed it, and it's their prerogative to specify the intended design limits. If I do something they say not to do, and something breaks because of it, it's my fault.
My other reason for swapping is that the wider track won't fit everywhere I need to go.
As far as your Hemi goes, unless Dodge said not to use bigger tires, they should honor any warranty issues. Go for it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
One, I feel that the manufacturer should not be held responsible to warranty damage from uses that they specifically advise against.
They designed it, and it's their prerogative to specify the intended design limits. If I do something they say not to do, and something breaks because of it, it's my fault.
My other reason for swapping is that the wider track won't fit everywhere I need to go.
As far as your Hemi goes, unless Dodge said not to use bigger tires, they should honor any warranty issues. Go for it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
FOURTEEN
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
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- Efland - Triangle of North Carolina.
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<font color="red"> As I have said: <font color="blue"> "this is a decision, like many others regarding the use and care of a PT-425, which must ultimately be addressed by the OWNER for HIS machine being used by HIM in HIS situation!!" </font>
If you're happy, that's all that counts!! I hope that I've helped you make an informed decision, but ultimately that decision, and any result, positive or negative, is YOURS!! </font>
If you're happy, that's all that counts!! I hope that I've helped you make an informed decision, but ultimately that decision, and any result, positive or negative, is YOURS!! </font>
Charlie_Iliff
Veteran Member
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tracdoc
Platinum Member
Charlie,
Now there's a prime candidate for the Darwin award /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Now there's a prime candidate for the Darwin award /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gravy
Platinum Member
No argument here, and no offense taken -
I just intended to express why, in MY situation, I choose to swap.
In fact, for a lot of my use, (but not always) I prefer the wider track.
My feelings about warranties are colored by my career as a mechanic.
A depressing percentage of people will *grossly* abuse a machine, and then expect warranty coverage. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif After 20+ years of that, I tend to be a bit sensitive about such things.
Consequently, I don't want to give PT a legitimate reason to deny coverage during the warranty period.
In light of the above, and because I have a really good time designing and fabricating things, AND because I HATE having to fix avoidably broken stuff, I plan to try to find a way to make the track width variable without beating up the wheel motors.
I'm currently thinking along the lines of spacers between the wheel motor housings and main frame, extended hoses & brake cables, slotted bolt holes... you get the picture. A little steel, a little welding and grinding, some fittings...
The great thing about a PT is that is relatively easy and cheap to try stuff and see how it works without screwing up the basic construction - it's easy to undo if it doesn't work. Think about trying the equivalent with a JD or Kubota!
Most likely, I'll post the results here, eventually.
(Maybe it's time for a "My Dream PT" thread)
Meanwhile, I've got more attachment projects going.
The auger head is almost done.
I bought Dave Sisk's stump cutter, and will be fabricating a mount (his machine uses a 3 pin hitch).
I'm trying to figure out just what sort of grapple design will work best for me...
And then, there's another annoying detail: my boss expects me to actually WORK at my job! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I don't understand why I'm always tired these days /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Dave
I just intended to express why, in MY situation, I choose to swap.
In fact, for a lot of my use, (but not always) I prefer the wider track.
My feelings about warranties are colored by my career as a mechanic.
A depressing percentage of people will *grossly* abuse a machine, and then expect warranty coverage. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif After 20+ years of that, I tend to be a bit sensitive about such things.
Consequently, I don't want to give PT a legitimate reason to deny coverage during the warranty period.
In light of the above, and because I have a really good time designing and fabricating things, AND because I HATE having to fix avoidably broken stuff, I plan to try to find a way to make the track width variable without beating up the wheel motors.
I'm currently thinking along the lines of spacers between the wheel motor housings and main frame, extended hoses & brake cables, slotted bolt holes... you get the picture. A little steel, a little welding and grinding, some fittings...
The great thing about a PT is that is relatively easy and cheap to try stuff and see how it works without screwing up the basic construction - it's easy to undo if it doesn't work. Think about trying the equivalent with a JD or Kubota!
Most likely, I'll post the results here, eventually.
(Maybe it's time for a "My Dream PT" thread)
Meanwhile, I've got more attachment projects going.
The auger head is almost done.
I bought Dave Sisk's stump cutter, and will be fabricating a mount (his machine uses a 3 pin hitch).
I'm trying to figure out just what sort of grapple design will work best for me...
And then, there's another annoying detail: my boss expects me to actually WORK at my job! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I don't understand why I'm always tired these days /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Dave
BobRip
Elite Member
All he has to do is lean back a little bit and knock that post out.
Bob Rip
Bob Rip
Gravy
Platinum Member
Did you notice that he appears to be arc welding on the fuel tank? I don't think he'll need to knock the posts out.
OUCH!!!
Dave
P.S.,
If I were the photographer, I'd have used a MUCH longer lens, and shot from a safe distance - like, say, a couple of miles!?!
OUCH!!!
Dave
P.S.,
If I were the photographer, I'd have used a MUCH longer lens, and shot from a safe distance - like, say, a couple of miles!?!
FOURTEEN
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 1,042
- Location
- Efland - Triangle of North Carolina.
- Tractor
- 2004 Power Trac PT-425
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A depressing percentage of people will *grossly* abuse a machine, and then expect warranty coverage. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Dave )</font>
<font color="red"> I was on the other side of that! In the '60s GM had nice long warranties. The only problem was that every problem was pronounced by the service manager as either "Normal Wear" or "Abuse"!! I still don't put much stock in warranties! Some products cost more to send in for repair than the item cost new!! So I try to buy quality, use it but don't abuse it, and trust that the warranty will expire just before a problem arises!!
</font>
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<font color="red"> I was on the other side of that! In the '60s GM had nice long warranties. The only problem was that every problem was pronounced by the service manager as either "Normal Wear" or "Abuse"!! I still don't put much stock in warranties! Some products cost more to send in for repair than the item cost new!! So I try to buy quality, use it but don't abuse it, and trust that the warranty will expire just before a problem arises!!
</font>
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Gravy
Platinum Member
I've seen plenty of that other side, too. Those same service managers were likely treating their mechanics similarly. I could tell you stories, but I'll bet you already have a good idea.
Dave
Dave
BAGTIC
Silver Member
Did you mean that you addeed 5 more inches to your 'wheel track'?
Don't see how reversing he wheels would increase the wheel base as it is established by the axle spacing.
Don't see how reversing he wheels would increase the wheel base as it is established by the axle spacing.
