More compact tractor questions!

[robes]

Hi everyone, from down in New Zealand,

I have a very steep 5 acres that I want to turn into a vineyard and olives. Established pasture which I want to slash and then incorporate (rotary hoe or disc in?) and planting out next spring. Never been a tractor owner, so it's been a steep learning curve.

With the slope, I need a certain level of grunt, so have ruled out anything below 30 hP. I've basically been leaning towards HST, from everyones recommendations of the time saving and accuracy it allows. Would be really keen on anyone's thoughts on this and also whether anyone has done anything similar on very steep blocks. Long term the tractor will be mainly slashing and spraying.

Models available down here - all within a few thousand dollars. Kubota B3300 (cheapest) Deere 3036 (next) Kioti CK35 Kubota L3800. This Kioti comes with a 4 in one bucket and is the heaviest (1400kg). B3300 is pretty light (800 kg on ag tyres) Like the 3300 and the price, but not sure whether it will have enough pep to do much on my hill.

All thoughts welcome,

Regards

 

[BlackOps]

welcome, i have a small vineyard - had 90 vines until last month and took 10 out for various reasons. how many vines are you going to have? what is the spacing in the rows or aisles? what are you going to do with the tractor in the vineyard? depending on the answers that should dictate the size of tractor. how steep? no matter what size tractor that could be an issue? also the lighter Kub tractor i would stay away for various reasons.tires consideration is next.

 

[silvertramp]

Looks like four wheel drive is a must.

 

[robes]

Yes, definitely 4WD. 8 foot row spacing, want to work up to around 700 vines. Fairly acid soil, so want to lime and plough/ hoe in the pasture. After setup, mainly slashing down the rows and spraying (very wet spring here normally before a dry summer) is what I would envisage. R4s may lessen compaction a little?, but for the next year or so during setup may appreciate the extra grip of the ags?

Really wondering about thoughts on weight - heavy vs light tractor on my steep hill. Or is horsepower more important than weight - anyone done much ploughing or hoeing on steep slopes with smaller tractors? CK35 with 4:1 bucket and Kubota L3800 conventional bucket are the same price. Any supporters of the deere 3036? - it's a little cheaper. Or step down to the (cheaper/ lighter again) B3300.

Many thanks

 

[Code54]

I always am working on hills and had a smaller B series, then a L3700. Sold them and bought a MX5100. I personally found the MUCH wider stance and extra weight a huge plus for the hills and it much easer to accomplish my work in a safe manner.

 

[jeff9366]

I am retired from the California wine industry.

I owned a Kubota B3300SU in retirement. (Florida)

The Kubota B3300SU is much too light and unstable for the uses you have described.

I suggest you look at the NARROW / VINEYARD / ORCHARD specialty tractors offered by Kubota, Deere and others. All are 48" wide. A lot of vineyard implements and sprayers are designed around these tractors. All have HST transmissions for max torque when starting with a load, up hill, and for "automatic" braking.

If land is relatively cheap where you are, so you can space rows wider than eight feet, a wider tractor may work. I would not consider anything less than fifty horsepower and 4,000 pounds weight tractor only.

Pulling a harvest grape gondola loaded with 3,000 pounds of fruit up and down slopes requires quite a bit of power AND weight. Same for loaded spray and irrigation rigs.

In California you can no longer spray without a fully enclosed cab with filtered, positive air pressure on the inside, to protect workers.

 

[robes]

Thanks for that,

That certainly was my concern with the B3300 - on ags the specs only say it weighs 800 kg(1760 lbs) Felt very nippy and manouevrable but a little on the light side and my hill is pretty steep. Don't really have the funds to step up to the 5100 - but it looks like a lot of tractor. I don't think I'll have the scale of operation to go down the road of the narrow inter-row tractors. They start at a much higher price point down here.

Appreciate the comments, anyone had problems with the CK35 running out of puff on slopes with its heavier weight? Also, I've been reading about the jerky 3 point on the L3800. Is this still a problem with todays model, or have they ironed it out? Regards

 

[Code54]

Understand the fund "thing" - these machines can get a bit pricey!

Also watch for machines that allow you to slide the wheels out wider on the axles and some people have used good quality wheel spacers with success.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

As an aside, a rotary hoe does not till or cultivate the soil. It only breaks up the crust of soil that has already been tilled / cultivated.

For turning pasture into a vineyard, you will need to either run a moldboard plow over it (at least once), or run a chisel plow over it 2 or 3 times to break up the soil, and then disc it multiple times with a heavy tandem disc. After that, you will need to either till it with a tiller or at least run a drag harrow of some sort over it to break up the dirt clods and level the soil out.

 

[TSO]

If you're going to be doing "ground engaging" tasks like you mention, and are using HST (which I love btw) then my fear is that you're shopping too small. Sometimes my 48hp HST isn't strong enough (and/or loses traction) when I'm working the earth. Just something to think about.

 

[MESSMAKER]

A 48" tractor and steep hills sounds kinda scary!!!!!
I think I might look at other options. My tractor is about 60 inches wide and can get tippy in a hurry.

 

[TJP89]

I have a pretty nasty hill in back, and some interesting cross slopes, and have never had an issue with my CK35. It's heavy and wide, and has enough power to get it up a steep hill with my 600+ lb (260kg) brushog on back. I would also feel very comfortable doing ground engaging tasks with it, as it seems very well built. That said, plowing or such up a steep hill would be hard for any 35HP tractor, you might look up in HP (Kioti DK, Kubota L4600, others). Also, I know several manufacturers make specialty tractors for orchards and vineyards, that would be something to look into.

 

[jeff9366]

Here is a LINK to VINEYARD TRACTORS in the T-B-N archive:

Search Results - VINEYARD TRACTORS - TractorByNet.com

 

[jeff9366]

Yes, definitely 4WD. 8 foot row spacing, want to work up to around 700 vines. Fairly acid soil, so want to lime and plough/ hoe in the pasture. After setup, mainly slashing down the rows and spraying (very wet spring here normally before a dry summer) is what I would envisage. R4s may lessen compaction a little?, but for the next year or so during setup may appreciate the extra grip of the ags?

When your vine canes sprout out 24" from each vineyard row, you will have 48" or LESS remaining to get your tractor through.

Vineyard and Orchard tractors are engineered specifically to have extra tight turning radius. With a standard tractor towing vineyard rigs you will have a very wide / unacceptable turning radius at row heads.

Ag tires are appreciably narrower than Industrial tires. Factory specs on tractor widths are always with Ag tires. In California I cannot remember seeing a Vineyard and Orchard tractor without Ag tires except a few on tracks.

You should inspect specialty vineyard and orchard tractors with a good salesperson, new and used, before buying a standard tractor. Travel if you need to, but look.

 

[robes]

Thanks Jeff,

Food for thought. I had only considered I needed a foot and a half either side clearance. But that might be a little tight. Fairly high vigour site, so can step out a little if necessary with the row spacing. With a small operation, I hadn't really considered anything but a standard tractor, but will make enquiries. Thanks everyone else, appreciate the posts. It sounds like I might need the big boys to come in for the preparation.

 

[rgr33]

I own a small vineyard in Oregon, where the hills are steep and it is wet and muddy way too much. I have about 3600 Pinot plants, planted at 8foot spacing about 20 years ago. I have never used a tractor with more than 35 hp, and neither do most people with small plots around here,big mega farms are a different story. you don't need a muscle bound tractor to run a 50-100 gallon sprayer,it's overkill. The same goes for a flail mower or brush hog, remember you can only get 5 foot wide or so equipment down your rows. I don' allow my vines to protrude 2 feet out into the row, that would create too much shade on the berries, and prevent your fungicides from covering everything adequately. my footprint going down the rows is 66 inches, the rear tire are loaded with beet juice for traction. remember, soil compaction is bad for your plants,muddy vineyard floor( aggressive tire tread) creates a planting bed for weeds,using weed killer to kill weeds is bad for your grape plants,so step lightly on your vineyard floor. Also, your vineyard will soon create it's own terrace as you work it, it always does, and that will help in keeping traction on the hill. I never use the four wheel drive on my vy as it is not needed, and tears up the cover crop between the rows, which leads to......more weeds.
by the way, if no one ever told you, raising good wine grapes is a fascinating challenge,no two years are ever the same, and that's why vintage is such a big deal in wine.

 

[BlackOps]

Nice post and I agree 100%!!! I love pinot noir!

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . . I have never used a tractor with more than 35 hp, and neither do most people with small plots around here,big mega farms are a different story. you don't need a muscle bound tractor to run a 50-100 gallon sprayer,it's overkill. The same goes for a flail mower or brush hog, remember you can only get 5 foot wide or so equipment down your rows. . . .

That's good advice but he was also wanting his tractor to turn a "very steep" pasture into cultivated soil ready to plant. That's a bird of a different feather.

 

[MESSMAKER]

That's good advice but he was also wanting his tractor to turn a "very steep" pasture into cultivated soil ready to plant. That's a bird of a different feather.

Maybe the answer is to rent or hire it done rater than buy more machine than you will need in the future.

 

[TJP89]

Thanks Jeff,

Food for thought. I had only considered I needed a foot and a half either side clearance. But that might be a little tight. Fairly high vigour site, so can step out a little if necessary with the row spacing. With a small operation, I hadn't really considered anything but a standard tractor, but will make enquiries. Thanks everyone else, appreciate the posts. It sounds like I might need the big boys to come in for the preparation.

narrow tractor sounds dangerous on steep slope, I would space wide and get a 35HP machine to do the work. Get someone, or rent something, to do the initial soil prep, as you probably need a bigger machine for that than you need in the course of normal operations.