Mowing Mid-PTO RPM for Belly Mower for Solaris 35 Tractor

[Same35]

I recently bought a Same Solaris 35 tractor locally for a very good price. It is a cute little thing. I know Same no longer sells in the US, but I should be able to find parts through Duetz. It was purchased new by the original owner and only used for light mowing with a 60" belly mower. The tractor only has less than 200 hrs on it and looks like new. It has a Mitsubishi 1.5L diesel and runs like a top.

My question is the belly mower. It is a 3-spindle Perruzo finish mower that runs off the rear-mid PTO facing forward from the rear axle. The PTO has selectable speeds of 540 or 1,000 RPM. The mower deck has a sticker that says 2,000 RPM. Do most of these mid-mount mowers run at 2,000 or 1,000 RPM? I obviously don't have much experience with these small tractors. The mounting and setup appears factory to me, and I'm guessing the original dealer put the package together. It just seems odd for the RPM mis-match.

Hopefully it won't need many repairs down the road. It is a well built tractor and mower, and I normally do all our own repair work, so the off-brand doesn't bother me too much.

I don't suppose anyone else here on the forum has a Solaris 35?

 

[ptsg]

Over here we get these tractors everywhere. Same, Deutz, Hurlimann, Lamborghini, Landini, etc.

We don't get the mid PTO option so I can't help you with that.

The 540 and 1000 RPM PTO speeds are just for the rear PTO. Some will have another position on the lever that will sync the drivetrain with the PTO to be used with trailers that have a diff to help with traction.

The mid PTO will have only one speed and it's most likely to be 2000 RPM since it's the standard RPM for mid PTOs.

 

[Same35]

ptsg,

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't think of that, but probably the front-facing pto is running at 2,000 rpm, and is not related the rear pto. If I find a tach I might try to measure it to see.

I'm impressed with the tractor so far. It appears to be very well built and has many features. Too bad they pulled out of the US. The Peruzzo mower is built like a tank, and I expect it will last a long time.

 

[ptsg]

They are indeed really good machines.

What year is yours? I know the older ones used to have some overheating problems. I believe they had the fan pulling the air from the rear to the front, plus the radiator gets blocked with the fuel tank in front. A solution that most people do over here is to swap the fan for one that pulls the air from the front to the back and they send the radiators out to re-core with a more open core so the air flows easily.

Those digital laser tachometers are cheap and handy to use.

 

[Same35]

Based on the paperwork it appears to be a 1999. It has a flatter hood than the current models that slope forward. I ordered a manual from a UK source. That may help answer some of my questions once it arrives.

I really hesitated to buy it, due to the lack of dealers here. However, now that I see how popular they are in other parts of the world, I figure that worst that can happen is I have to order parts from overseas and wait a few days.

The machine will mostly be for finish mowing around the house and orchard, so I shouldn't be overtaxing the cooling system too much.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I just wanted to add, I believe that model was made in Poland...

SR

 

[Same35]

ptsg,

Thanks for your mentioning the overheating. I wound up buying a 72 inch 3ph finish mower while I eventually figure out the belly mower. The tractor does run hot while mowing. Looking from your post, it appears the dealer or someone changed to the pull type fan. Even with that, the tractor runs almost hot under load. The radiator is perfectly clean. I wonder if the radiator isn't a bit under spec.

Is overheating a general problem with these machines?

 

[ptsg]

Yes overheating is a problem with these machines. The older style ones at least.

The manufacturer actually admitted they messed up, yet they didn't really stand up and fix the problem for the owners. Some owners managed to get some sort of an agreement with the dealers I believe.

A quick fix, is to run it without the side panels.

I see countless tractors running like that over here. Not only Same but also the others from the same group, like Deutz, Hurlimann, Lamborghini and so on.

The general fix is definitely get the radiator re-cored with a core that allows for more air flow. Or find another radiator that fits there. Maybe an aluminium one.

I think the radiator gets way too blocked with the fuel tank and battery. Plus the stock fan pulling the hot air from the engine to the front doesn't really help much. Just bad design I guess, which I find odd on such a company/group with such good reputations.

 

[Same35]

Thanks for the feedback. Since I seem to be the only one in the US with one of these tractors, thank you for letting me pick your brain. Re-coring the radiator wouldn't be to bad a job or too expensive, and the area has easy access. I noticed the Solaris 45 seems to be the same engine and frame, but with a turbo to put out more hp. I would think a radiator from one of those should be of higher capacity and fit into the 35. Of course without any dealers or many machines in the scrap yards, finding used parts like that would be pretty much impossible.

It really is a nice little machine. The hydraulics and general construction and layout is excellent, and the Mitsubishi diesel purrs like a kitten.

Since I can't find any dealers still in the US, I wonder if I could connect with a foreign dealer, perhaps somewhere in Portugal or Italy, should I ever need parts for it? Filters, belts and normal items are not a problem.

 

[ptsg]

I've reading more about these tractors on some Portuguese forums.

Some people, along with re-coring and swapping fans, will also lower the battery. I'm entirely familiar with this machines layout but I'm guessing the battery is right in front of the radiator, right?

I've always admired these machines since they came out. They made a really neat and compact tractor. They have some problems, but that happens every brands really. The newer ones are know to either break or bend the shift fork and linkage for the PTO gear selector.

I've always wanted one and when I was trading my little Kubota B7000 and a small 28hp crawler tractor, I almost went with an used New Holland TCE45, which is the same thing as yours, just newer style. Dealer wasn't that interested on my stuff so I moved on to the dealer on the other side of the road that basically got the deal and I got a new tractor.

I want to help you and suggest some dealers over here but I've never dealt with dealers for these brands, so I'm not really familiar with a good one that I know they would help you. Maybe try some Italian dealers, they might have some better prices since they are the origin country for Same. OEM parts are never cheap but we usually get a somewhat better price than in the US. The shipping is probably the worst part of it. It gets expensive really fast.

 

[Same35]

ptsg,

Thanks again for the information. My Solaris 35 is basically like new, with less than 200 hrs on it. Whoever had it only used it for light mowing and stored it indoors. The paint and bodywork is also like new.

You mentioned the New Hollands being similar. Looking at their TC35, it does look nearly identical to the newer model Solaris. That might offer me a route for parts should I need them. Meanwhile, I'll write to the Italian factory and see if I can connect up to them - not that the tractor needs anything.

Thanks again.

 

[ptsg]

The TC I believe is a US model, while the TCE is a European model. They seem to be quite different. For instance the TC is more like an open platform tractor, while the TCE is like your Solaris with the gearbox in the middle of your legs.

With 200 hours, that's definitely a new tractor. That's quite a popular tractor over here, either brands and both new style and old style, so they show up very regularly on ours advertisement websites and dealers. I quite often see on our "Craigslist" these tractors for sale with over 3000 hours and still looking in great shape. They are great machines.

It's too bad that Same or any other from the group, doesn't invest a little bit more on the US market. That being said, I just remember that Deutz is a bit more popular than Same in the US, so the Deutz Agrokid 35 is similar to the Same. Have you tried to source Deutz instead?

 

[CalG]

I have the Hurlimann version of your SAME. A Prince 435 SL&H. SAME-Hurlimann and Lamborghini. Look at the ID plate on yours, This one carries Ser No. H PRN 35T*2280

Whoever mentioned "made in Poland" is without knowledge. These are Italian made tractors. If they could all be Lamborghini the world would know them well ;-)

I'm in New England, and the tractor sees it's hardest work in winter. 'Never had any issues with too much heat. This Hurlimann is fitted with an Allied Loader. A very handy set up on small acreage.

I've not needed any replacement parts over the years. There are several Deutz dealers that all seem ready, willing and able to help with parts. I once got an "If you ever want to sell, I've got a waiting market" offer. A Great feeling when in possession of an "orphan". There is a place in Norcross Ga, and in Chambersburg PA that could be parts sources. I can't recall the names.

My nearest "dealer" is about 100 miles north, so the advent of the internet is a useful thing. Filters and common parts are available at the local FLAPS with the WIX brand.

There is a thread on this forum about an intermittent shutting off issue by an owner in the mid Atlantic area. I had that as well. The fuel cut off controller was bypassed to "fix" the issue. A simple pull rod to the fuel cut off lever is now fitted which is fine with me. Simple is good.

Regards the mid PTO?

Verified by the Operating and Maintenance handbook provided with this tractor, when the PTO selector is in the 1000 rpm position, the mid mounted , front PTO turns at 2000 rpm if the engine is at 1000 rpm pto speed (check your tachometer panel!)

Also:

There is a debris screen panel that slides out to the side just to the rear of the cooler (radiator). That MUST remain clear. With the loader frame, the panel on my tractor can not be removed. I hose out the cooler coils regularly when operation in dusty conditions is part of the day's work.

Just a comment: With locking diff both front and rear, these things climb like billy goats, and go almost anywhere. 'Carry a good load too.
Alas, they are not "heavy", and only can push or pull so much.

Enjoy! And "check the threads in the "Other Makes" forum. Do a search

Also , there is an Italian tractor interest forum that has a SL&H subforum. Not much action, better if you read Italiano. ;-)

 

[CalG]

interesting photo
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/all-other-brands/383030-avoid-confusion-about-sdf-sl.html

The NH tractors have Yanmar engines, so, not really the same tractor.

 

[Same35]

Thanks CalG for the help. I'm not feeling so much like an orphan anymore. I tried to find some Deutz dealers, but haven't had much luck so far. I will try to locate some of the ones you mentioned, although Deutz also seems to have fled the US market.

Regarding the fan and screen. I wonder if my Solaris had the modification that ptsg mentioned, in that the engine fan on mine pulls through the radiator and back towards the engine in the conventional way. However, I have the screen that you mentioned behind the radiator, where it does little good, so I assume someone changed the fan. The radiator itself is pristine. In front of the radiator there seems ample space for air to enter. There is an aluminum colored panel on the rear of the fuel tank. I changed the fan belt, changed the coolant and put in a new air filter, but haven't had the chance to run it much yet to see if it helped keep the engine temp more in the middle of the gauge.

I was somewhat surprised when I contacted Westorf that they had a quick detach loader available for this tractor. I will check with Allied as well. Now that I see how widely used they are outside the US and under different brand names, it is making sense. One thing I like is the price I paid for the tractor, only a few thousand and it is like new, so I can afford to spend more time on parts and accessories.

 

[Same35]

Just a follow up on this thread. First, just to let everyone know, Deutz-Fahr is back in the US bigtime! I finally called their Georgia office, and found that over the last year or two, they have already added over 70 dealers across the US. They connected me with a new dealer in central NY only an hour away. I called, and they had all the parts books for my Same Solaris 35. I can basically order any part that they still have in stock with no problems. So anyone with one of the Same (or Hurliman, etc.) tractors, the Deutz dealers are available and all around the US.

Now for the overheating issue. My tractor has had the fan changed at some point to pull air through the radiator, rather than push it. I ordered the original "push" type fan, since I thought I would go back to stock as a starting point. However, I forgot to order the spacer, so when I removed the fan the new one wouldn't go on properly. However, the one on the tractor was professionally done, with a machined aluminum space. It was a very heavy duty unit, and with only 200 hours on the tractor, I assumed it was done by a dealer. So I reinstalled it until I get the proper space. There is an open mesh metal safety screen around the fan, and it occurred to me that without a proper shroud it wouldn't pull much air through the radiator. So I used aluminum duct tape to tape over the mesh and create a shroud. Not the prettiest in the world, but effective.

With the improvised shroud and pull type fan, under heavy load (a 72" finish mower in heavy grass) it would run hot, but not overheat into the red. Then I did an experiment, and removed the side panels as posted above. Viola! No overheating! I am amazed, but the side panels really raised the engine temp. So as long as I leave the side panels off, it seems there is no overheating issue.

All this points to an inadequate radiator, since everything is running marginally and these small changes are enough to make it overheat or not. So at the end of the season, I am probably going to get the radiator recored with some extra capacity. There is about an inch of extra space I could use with a thicker core. I really like the tractor overall, so I don't mind fussing with it a bit and try to eliminate the root cause of the overheating.

It is odd to me though, how the tractor made it out of the design phase an into the real world with it obviously overheating in stock condition. Surely somebody at Same noticed it would overheat under heavy usage and that removing the side panels would help.

 

[ptsg]

That's some really nice news!

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you managed to find some support to your tractor.

The remove the side panels solution is more like a farmer fix in my opinion. But it gets the job done though. Seems like they didn't add anywhere for the hot air to escape with the side panels on.

On a local forum, someone mentioned that these tractors were designed for cold climates. Which may or may not make sense. I suppose the push type fan would help getting the engine warmer. On the other hand, the Italians don't get that cold weather.

EDIT: I keep forgetting about MF. But the MF 1335 is also the same tractor as yours.

 

[Same35]

ptsg,

Thanks for the response. Same must be one busy little company, with their tractors under so many different brand names. Thanks for the information re. the MF 1335. Looking on tractordata, it is indeed the identical same tractor as the Same Solaris 35.

As I am thinking about upsizing the radiator, it occurred to me that Same offered the Solaris 45, which appears to be the identical same Mitsubishi 1.5 L engine but with a turbocharger and 45 hp. They must have put a larger radiator into the 45. So I am wondering if I look around for a 45 radiator, it should be higher capacity but still physically fit into the chassis and engine bay. Have you ever heard of anyone doing this?

Knowing about these other models of the same tractor gives me more places to look for parts.